Originally Posted by hummingbear

I agree with most of this. I think the pie is, as you said, a finite range. Meaning, it is not a set number, but there is a point where it will get too high to be seen as realistic. For the most part, putting more marbles in one dish means taking marbles out of another.

However, when market forces create certain pressures, that range can shift upward (or downward). Look, for example, at how much more money is being talked about in the post-DAL TA environment. We’re now talking about a pie that is roughly triple what it was in TUMI 1 (less than a year ago). That money isn’t coming out of the pockets of any UAL pilot group, it’s being driven up by the reality of the current market.

I believe our current market for NBCA (consistently unfilled seats) justifies an upward shift of the pie- IOW, the free market is demanding a recalibration it hasn’t asked for in the past.

Now, here’s another place we’ll agree. The company would much rather we borrow against ourselves to pay for it. Their every proposal for increasing NBCA pay (which I think they’d like to do) will come at the expense of WBFO, various work rule benefits, etc. This is why it’s critical we have union negotiators we can trust to reject any such offers & keep pressure on the company to instead shift that pie range upward to meet real life market conditions. I believe (hope) we finally have that here at UAL.

Lastly here’s where I agree with what you posted. It’s almost impossible to pull this off without the perception of having robbed Peter to pay Paul, and thus very unlikely to ever pass a vote. I really think there are lots of pilots here who would vote yes to a straight 25% raise, but no on a 25%/30% split with NBCA getting more. IOW, even if they were getting the money they wanted, they would turn it down if it meant getting less than anyone else. This is where the “finite pie” theory hurts us. Rather than “striking while the iron is hot” in targeted areas, we tend to balk at improvements that don’t benefit us directly (e.g., commuter protection for locals, RSV rules for lineholders, etc.) because we feel our bowl must be getting denied marbles to pay for it.