Originally Posted by
SonnyTuckson
For sure no. Not with this negotiating team.
This negotiating team has no cards in hands. They went personal after a successful CEO and his team, at the time when the company is doing really well, dropped the attrition and safety card so early in the process, it's scary. It's obviously beyond obtaining gain and a new deal for us anyway at this point. It's obviously gone now. Especially personal for the chief negotiator (who was recalled by the entire pilot group as a president - what is he doing negotiating?!).
This is his last dance and he's more into the fight than actual gain for the pilot group. Same with his partner at the table. Can she stop with her "fud! fud! fud!" and start listening to pilots' concerns? Heard a few pilots calling to express their concern and all they get as an answer is "fud! fud! fud!". Feels a bit like a cult right now more than organization we pay for.
I pay my dues to be represented, not to be lectured as to what is better for me or not. Representation! That's what election give. And when we get an offer, don't decide for me: explain why it's a bad offer, what is bad in the offer, what is good, and submit it to the group so that we, paying members, can choose to vote No, or Yes. And then we vote No, go back to the table. That's what we pay for.
When are we voting again?
You calling out FUD is exactly FUD. Tell me how another negotiating team can negotiate with air. The company is not willing to negotiate with anybody right now. Honestly, I wouldnt if I were them either as long as the metal keeps moving, unless we are foolish enough to accept the POS we were offered.
The lead negotiator is exactly the one that we need negotiating for us unless you want the last, best POS offer the company tried to get through by going around the union. He actually wasn't recalled. We had about 700 sign a petition for recall, but he stepped down voluntarily to try to keep the strife from building even further. How did the next team work out? You know, the one that was basically hand picked by management. The team that accomplished nothing and also mostly had to step down after getting caught lying to the group. One was such a POS that he basically had to quit and go back to AA well before anyone had any idea it was going to probably be a good choice.
You need to read the emails from the union and message board posts from at least Pedro. You need to take the union surveys. We are represented. This leadership exactly follows the will of the majority and polls us at least a couple of times a year to determine that will. We have had 2 internet surveys available to ALL union members in the last 9 months or so and at least 2 phone surveys since last summer also. The union leadership exactly sent out emails and made message board posts explaining why AJs end around offer was a POS. They also explained why they weren't putting it out for a vote. Even putting it out for a vote that gets overwhelmingly voted down doesn't make the company come back to the table to negotiate. Only we can force that and so far the majority is still way too willing to work extra days and give good will to accomplish the schedules. We will get nothing until we stop. The only people that the offer we had is good forbis those who are getting ready to leave soon or who will get an SDP position for helping management push this POS through. We don't need another management manipulated union.
I do agree that it is unlikely we have a new contract anytime soon, but not because of Luthi and the rest of the leadership and negotiators.