SonnyTuckson

For sure no. Not with this negotiating team.
This negotiating team has no cards in hands. They went personal after a successful CEO and his team, at the time when the company is doing really well, dropped the attrition and safety card so early in the process, it's scary. It's obviously beyond obtaining gain and a new deal for us anyway at this point. It's obviously gone now. Especially personal for the chief negotiator (who was recalled by the entire pilot group as a president - what is he doing negotiating?!).
This is his last dance and he's more into the fight than actual gain for the pilot group. Same with his partner at the table. Can she stop with her "fud! fud! fud!" and start listening to pilots' concerns? Heard a few pilots calling to express their concern and all they get as an answer is "fud! fud! fud!". Feels a bit like a cult right now more than organization we pay for.

I pay my dues to be represented, not to be lectured as to what is better for me or not. Representation! That's what election give. And when we get an offer, don't decide for me: explain why it's a bad offer, what is bad in the offer, what is good, and submit it to the group so that we, paying members, can choose to vote No, or Yes. And then we vote No, go back to the table. That's what we pay for.

When are we voting again?

jtf560

You calling out FUD is exactly FUD. Tell me how another negotiating team can negotiate with air. The company is not willing to negotiate with anybody right now. Honestly, I wouldnt if I were them either as long as the metal keeps moving, unless we are foolish enough to accept the POS we were offered.

The lead negotiator is exactly the one that we need negotiating for us unless you want the last, best POS offer the company tried to get through by going around the union. He actually wasn't recalled. We had about 700 sign a petition for recall, but he stepped down voluntarily to try to keep the strife from building even further. How did the next team work out? You know, the one that was basically hand picked by management. The team that accomplished nothing and also mostly had to step down after getting caught lying to the group. One was such a POS that he basically had to quit and go back to AA well before anyone had any idea it was going to probably be a good choice.

You need to read the emails from the union and message board posts from at least Pedro. You need to take the union surveys. We are represented. This leadership exactly follows the will of the majority and polls us at least a couple of times a year to determine that will. We have had 2 internet surveys available to ALL union members in the last 9 months or so and at least 2 phone surveys since last summer also. The union leadership exactly sent out emails and made message board posts explaining why AJs end around offer was a POS. They also explained why they weren't putting it out for a vote. Even putting it out for a vote that gets overwhelmingly voted down doesn't make the company come back to the table to negotiate. Only we can force that and so far the majority is still way too willing to work extra days and give good will to accomplish the schedules. We will get nothing until we stop. The only people that the offer we had is good forbis those who are getting ready to leave soon or who will get an SDP position for helping management push this POS through. We don't need another management manipulated union.

I do agree that it is unlikely we have a new contract anytime soon, but not because of Luthi and the rest of the leadership and negotiators.

hawkerpilot05

Got to love how the fringe minority come here to vent because they are too chicken **** to do it on our NJASAP board. Multiple surveys have show the group is behind the Eboard and have a very low rating for our CEO. Oh well, the list of people leaving to the Legacy carriers keep growing. When you see a 50 year old and 18 year employee and Steward leave, it should tell you something. One of our negotiators from the 2020 CBS was hired in 2018 into the Phenom and was being trained in as a Steward and on the negotiators committee. After dealing with the company in 2020, she saw the writing on the wall and left for United. She was so disgusted and disheartened with how the company views us.

ExecJet99

I’ve had my concerns of how the union is handling things, but this guy is a mole. Don’t even engage. It’s not worth it.

Tiggerpilot

We won’t have an agreement this year… that I agree with.

The company walking away from the table is the reason for that.

Placing blame on the negotiating committee for negotiating on our behalf makes no sense. They are given their marching orders by the pilot group who are falling further and further behind our peers.

If the negotiators could, we would have parity with our peers, improved QOL on the road, better schedules, and more protections. Yesterday…
How come that isn’t happening…. The company doesn’t want it and walked away. It’s not that hard.

Tiggerpilot

Oh, and Sonny, the recall occurred b/c a few pilots in union leadership were recruited by the company to sow discontent. And it worked.

Where and what are those pilots now? ALL have either moved on, are SDPs in their respective fleets (wonder how that happened?) or Management pilots.
The notorious Mark Luthi continues to serve the pilot group as a negotiator. Likely the most seasoned negotiator in the room.

The pilot group learned a lot from that recall. About how destructive it is, and that there will always be a few idiots willing to listen to the company’s whispers for their own benefit.

wankel7

So, basically everyone wants Section 6 sized base salary gains outside of Section 6?

If this actually happened....would it the first union represented pilot group to get this?

hawkerpilot05

It has happened for us. We have had section 6 for the 1998, 2005, and 2015 CBA. We have had IBB/IBI for the 2007, 2018, and 2020 and have always gotten gains. In fact the 2018 probably was on of the biggest.

MinRest

Depends on what you define as the biggest. It was only big in pay because of the flying demand and staffing paid you for how you were being scheduled. In terms of actual language gains and section changes, I don't think much has really happened outside of section 6. There were no meaningful changes in how you were scheduled or treated day to day. Clearly, now the company is in complete control of any gains outside of Section 6

Fracpirate

Lol
Every survey shows huge support for the Union . They won’t present anything that isn’t worth voting on. Total support for NJASAP negotiating team. Survey also shows the morale at Netjets is down the tubes with a complete lack of trust and total disconnect with Netjets Management. 40 per cent more work for 40 per cent less pay sucks.
Most New Hires I know are actively trying to leave. Some have given it to the end of summer to see what happens .