Originally Posted by
VisionWings
The union already answered this question with our contract comparison document. Go check it out if you’re unfamiliar with your peer group,
Yes, however the
union is not the one who will be signing the (hopefully higher) pay checks post-new-contract. That entity (Frontier/Barry) will be the one "defining" peers.
Originally Posted by
Hedley
There has always been different standards of compensation within the industry based on which model one works under. Legacy, ULCC, and regional are all under the same industry, yet all pay differently. In the freight side of the business, Atlas or Kalitta pilots have never made what UPS pilots do. Both fly the same aircraft and do the same job, however working for UPS vs an ACMI means that you are negotiating with a much deeper set of pockets. I'd love to see you guys make major improvements, however I just don't see a ULCC getting contractual parity with a legacy. Without a massive global network, frequent flyer programs that actually attract a large customer base, and the credit card revenue, you're just sticking your hands into a set of shallow pockets.
As far as the ULCC being the wrong model to support, that depends on the perspective of consumer, employee, shareholder, or management. I do think that the ULCC will adapt into a LCC model. The industry has simply made a pizza so cheap that many people don't want to eat it again after trying it. There is a demand for low priced travel, however that company can't incur the same cost as higher priced competition and still sell at a big discount. Raising prices somewhat and greatly improving service, frequency, and reliability should allow significant improvements in ULCC/LCC compensation, I do however believe that there will always be a gap between regionals, ULCC's, and legacies.
I fully agree with this and believe the union/pilot-group approach to negotiations should be of the "realistic approach" variety. "They fly Airbus and make more, so we should make the same" is not going to work. However, if some union financial geniuses could take Delta and United and strip away their credit card program, their global network, their revenue streams, and reverse engineer their resulting "Airbus salary" after all that is removed, we may have a logical place for negotiating.
ALPA represents Kalitta, Amerijet, ATI. They also represent FedEx. So why don't the first three get FedEx pay?
"ALPA sucks"
Ok fine. The teamsters represent Atlas. UPS Pilots is represted by IPA, while the rest of UPS (non-pilots) is teamsters. Do Atlas dudes get UPS Pay?
"Teamsters suck"
Ok, well
"Those arguments make no sense, Delta, FedEx, and UPS are BIGGER and have the ability to pay big pay. Big airline=Big Pay"
Probably, but maybe not. Or maybe we should be careful at least with that argument. They also have bigger costs, more bodies to pay into retirement matching, more complexities internally, etc etc.
Pay is basically a business decision. Whether pilots are approved to strike and cause a work stoppage, is yet to be seen. Sure, Spirit had a strike. Pre-pandemic.
Remember all that stuff, during COVID, about pilot jobs are critical for instrastructure, airlines must keep flying, national security, blah blah ?
Barry and Frontier lawyers have all that ready to go, in the event they think a strike will happen.
1. There will be no strike
2. There will be no "Delta rates"
3. Yes pay will come up. At every pay contract process in history, pay indeed came up.