Originally Posted by
johnnysnow
How does that apply to flying for an airline, since that's what this discussion is about? Can you cite the last time a US Fighter jet was being chased by a Mig? I can, 40 years ago during the Vietnam war, when we were all just kids. You military guys are a real trip. Constantly trying to remind everybody how much better you are than everyone else. Give it a break, please!
I've flown 121, 135, flight instructed, and I have been around a while. I had an ATP student once who was actively flying P-3's in the navy who couldn't shoot an ILS approach to Instrument PTS standards. On the other hand, I had an 18 year old (who just completed his commercial 3 weeks before) do his CFIA and CFII in 6 hours of dual. Took his check ride with the toughest FAA examiner in Dallas, guy said it was the best checkride he had ever given.
My point is where and how you got your training does not determine how good of a pilot you are. I've flown with many excellent military pilots, and some real bad ones. Same thing with the civilian trained guys.
Granted, a military pilot maybe knows how to dogfight, or calculate the math on a bomb trajectory, but these are not transferable skills. Your not flying a fighter jet anymore hotshot, it's a bus. Please try to remember that.
And while I'm at it, this stereo typical old, crusty, bourban and cigarette smelling Captain is not a role model. Back in the 80's, the airlines were trying to figure out why with all this great technology, they were still losing airframes on a regular basis. The answer was these old crusty loose cannons. Hence the intro of CRM first adopted by United with Quatum Pro. And by the way, where did all these relics come from anyway? That's right! the military!
Listen, don't get me wrong. I appreciate the military and their fine pilots. They have some of the best training around, if your doing arial refueling, dropping bombs, landing a 300 ton aircraft on a unprepared strip in a 1000 ft, planting an F-18 on a moving deck at night, dogfighting, etc. All I'm saying is that your attitude and those like you, is dismissive of any training or experiences that come from anywhere other than the military. It's getting real old. Rant over.
1.) I would argue that the last mig "chase" took place during Gulf one.
2.) "Constantly trying to remind everybody how much better you are than everyone else. Give it a break, please!" I would argue you're doing the exact same thing by claiming CFIs, CFIIs, etc are better than military pilots.
3.) Was your ATP P-3 guy flying that ILS in the P-3, or had he been flying a skychicken for a few hours? How do you know that he had flown anything that slow before?
4.) Those crusty, bourbon drinking guys that you speak of aren't all your typical "fighter jocks". Take a look at a recent event with Capt. Sullenburger.....what was his background?
5.) The reason why some, and I emphasize SOME here, of the military pilots are like that is because they can learn things pretty damn fast. This leads them to be able to do a lot in an airplane with one arm behind their back, a gun to their head, and four engines on fire and do it while sipping a mai tai and singing sinatra. They are trained to the most stringent of standards, I would say harder than your examiner in Dallas. They're decision making skills are typically top notch under pressure and they do know what CRM means. I'd argue that the military brought up CRM in their training regimen before the airlines did, but I'm not going to sit here with a ruler and measure.
6.) That attitude that you argue is so horrible from these typical military pilots is something I could argue you having right now by trying to insult them and saying their training is dismissive anywhere other than the military. I will call no joy on that argument any day.