[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by
johnnysnow
How does that apply to flying for an airline, since that's what this discussion is about? Can you cite the last time a US Fighter jet was being chased by a Mig? I can, 40 years ago during the Vietnam war, when we were all just kids. You military guys are a real trip. Constantly trying to remind everybody how much better you are than everyone else. Give it a break, please!
Sorry that you seem to have such a bad impression of the military pilot Johnny. The last time a Mig was on the tail of a US fighter was the Gulf War as A10 said.
Your point about it being totally different is right on point - which is exactly why the post was questioning the comparison of the "stick and rudder" skills" of a Part 135 pilot and a MILITARY pilot (I put that in caps because you seem to focus on the stiek fighter pilot). How about the transport or tanker pilots who even fly versions of civilian airplanes? They do EVERYTHING that a airline pilot does PLUS many mission oriented duties that the strict civilian pilot has never given a thought too.
I've flown 121, 135, flight instructed, and I have been around a while. I had an ATP student once who was actively flying P-3's in the navy who couldn't shoot an ILS approach to Instrument PTS standards. On the other hand, I had an 18 year old (who just completed his commercial 3 weeks before) do his CFIA and CFII in 6 hours of dual. Took his check ride with the toughest FAA examiner in Dallas, guy said it was the best checkride he had ever given.
I not sure when the last time a P-3 pilot would have flown an ILS or if they have one (I would think they would) I wonder if they would have flown a TACAN approach better or a PAR? I know that few in USN/USMC tactical aircraft have flown an ILS in years!
If you want to make comparisons - I have another for you then to show how bringing up one example is pretty worhtless. My squadron recently had a 3,000+ hr Part 135 pilot come through training. He did well overall - but he was NOT the guy with the highest grades at the end of the day. He even did the best in his class in certain phases of training, but he didn't graduate this training program with the highest grades. I guy who had only started flying 2 years ago and had a whopping 350+ hrs had better overall grades. Another high time civilian pilot going through training BARELY 9and I mean barely) made it through training and I wonder if he will even make it through his first fleet tour without a board.
Granted, a military pilot maybe knows how to dogfight, or calculate the math on a bomb trajectory, but these are not transferable skills. Your not flying a fighter jet anymore hotshot, it's a bus. Please try to remember that.
Why is it that the civilian pilot is usually the one that resort to this kind of attack? You're not helping your cause by calling people "hotshot" Johnny. It makes you look like one of those people who wishes he were doing doing something else. Find me the post on the forum where a military guy has said that there isn't good civilian training? It is a known fact (especially in the past) that the quality of civilian training widely varied and military flight school gives you a very consistent quality of instruction. The airlines have always like that aspect of military pilots. If you have heartburn with that then I'm sorry.
And while I'm at it, this stereo typical old, crusty, bourban and cigarette smelling Captain is not a role model. Back in the 80's, the airlines were trying to figure out why with all this great technology, they were still losing airframes on a regular basis. The answer was these old crusty loose cannons. Hence the intro of CRM first adopted by United with Quatum Pro. And by the way, where did all these relics come from anyway? That's right! the military!
You really have a bone with the military don't you? I'm sorry - show me the statistics that show the majority of incidents/accidents/mishaps were caused by former military pilots? Do you know why military pilots had some trouble with CRM? Because they had been doing single cockpit duties for a long time. It has taken a long time for that mindset to slowly change for the better. So much is made here of the Part 135 solo pilot. You don't think that the single seat military strike fighter pilot has reason to tout his skills either?
Listen, don't get me wrong. I appreciate the military and their fine pilots. They have some of the best training around, if your doing arial refueling, dropping bombs, landing a 300 ton aircraft on a unprepared strip in a 1000 ft, planting an F-18 on a moving deck at night, dogfighting, etc. All I'm saying is that your attitude and those like you, is dismissive of any training or experiences that come from anywhere other than the military. It's getting real old. Rant over.
Again - you see much more of your attitude on here seemingly jealous of the military pilot than you do the other way around. I'm sure there are those out there (especially ones who have never flown civilian) who think that way - but they are a vast minority. Your post says alot about some underlying problem that you might have experienced in your past. Find me the post where a military pilot says that all the things you mention above have anything to do with flying an airliner except for the CRM tenets of Situational Awareness, Assertiveness, Decision Making, Communication, Leadership, Adaptability/Flexibility, and Mission Analysis.
USMCFLYR