At FredEx, 95% of the training, IOE, line checks, and proficiency checks are done by line pilots who are trained for the task. Our managers are strictly "paper pushers". It takes at least 300 guys across all aircraft in our system to cover these areas. Same way at most other airlines -- pax or cargo.

UPS has a completely different organizational structure. Some IPA instructors are working the training center, but the management guys do the rest. That's the way it is -- probably never change. 98 years of doing things a certain way and that kind of shiatz happens. So there you have it, it takes a crap load of guys/gals to run the airline and keep the training and standards up to speed. At UPS, it's all done by management pilots, except for the support IPA guys.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but UPS wants to hire from within into the mgmt. ranks. If those positions are not filled, they look elsewhere. If you want to make changes, get off your horse and man up to do the job. Otherwise, your just part of the problem, not the solution.

There are plenty of guys who have paid their dues at FedEx and UPS that wouldn't be worth a bag of shiatz as an instructor or LCA. Strictly time on the line is not the only measure of a qualified pilot. Are you saying a guy who flew for 20 years in the military or as a LCA/Standards pilot at AA or UAL can't determine whether your landing sux or not? Give me a break! Get over yourself. You either show proficiency at your job or you don't. This prima donna attitude don't fly with me.

Hey, I'm just as ****ed off about our negotiations as you are. But, I think it's a mistake to group management pilots into the category of hate you may feel toward the Atlanta people (attorneys) at the negotiating table.

But it's always makes people feel better to vent on a discussion group and sign on to conspiracy theories when they get frustrated or "dis-enfranchised".

I know I feel better now.

Bring it.

NKA