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Old 08-08-2010 | 07:15 AM
  #6  
Lori Clark
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 320
Likes: 1
From: Aviation Consultant
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Cole –
I appreciate the analytics you’ve applied to this career choice, but there are a few incongruities. As well as, and maybe most importantly for you, there is no delineated, absolute path to achieving your goal.
Ok, here’s my two cents:
Originally Posted by airline NooB
I'm C-S/MEL with instrument. (I am NOT an instructor) 650 TT (360 X-cntry, 39 actual-inst, 71 night, 405 PIC)
This is on the low-side for what is happening in the industry today. Your multi time looks fairly decent, especially given your TT. My advice is to shoot for at least 1000 TT and even higher (1200 – 1500) perhaps… depending on when the regional airlines start practicing the new legislation. My instinct tells me they probably won’t implement it soon so you’ll most likely be able to skate in under the wire and be grandfathered in when it goes into full effect in three years.
Originally Posted by airline NooB
- 170 SIC Turbo-Prop (Merlin, Metroliner, King Air 100/200/350)
- 20 SIC Turbo-Fan (Citation II, Citation III, BeechJet)
These are icing on the cake – not the cake itself, which is what an airline needs to grant an interview. It will just make you look more attractive if you are right there with what they’re competitive hiring mins are running.

Originally Posted by airline NooB
My objective:
Airline
Not too picky as to which one.
My dream job is to work for Delta...someday.
I dont mind starting at a regional.
I dont mind starting with a freighter
I dont mind starting as a flight attendant
baggage-handler
toilet scrubber
This is a good thing – you don’t have the competitive hours to be selective. Don’t bet on any LLC or Legacy carrier to be calling anytime soon. The reality is that you will start your airline career at a regional (maybe go to a legacy from a freight outfit) and before that something less glamorous like flight instruction, banner towing, fire patrol and maybe, maybe some cargo. But most freight companies will want Part 135 minimums. They may, or may not, care about your “insurance required/approved schools.” It depends on how THEIR ops specs are written and THEIR insurance company’s requirements.

I recommend you start networking and finding out what regionals you like/dislike (be realistic with your evaluation, no regional is perfect), what freight/cargo operators are appealing and in the meantime get the CFI/MEI/CFII. You will learn more about yourself as a pilot and experience some invaluable lessons, which will only further develop your flying skills.

I know you were being sarcastic with starting as a flight-attendant, baggage handler or toilet scrubber – but I just have to address it. Many people believe this is a sure-fire in to a pilot position with the company. There are a couple of inehrant problems with that rationale. First, many people will slow their time-building to take on this type of job, or stop all together – NOT what you want to do. If you want to be a pilot then fly to build the time you need ASAP. Second, it MIGHT get you a preferential interview when/if they start hiring pilots (and that is only if you are also competitive hour-wise.) I emphasize might because many airlines, particularly regionals, don’t play that game. You’re better off flying as much as possible and applying “off the street.”
Originally Posted by airline NooB
Working against me:
- low time
- I'm 41
- not an instructor
- No bachelors degree (I have two associates)
- At-fault accident on record ( 2 yrs ago, no fatalities )
You’re right – these do work against you. But some more than others. A bachelor’s degree is a must with certain airlines – you need to research the ones that require/don’t require one and decide whether or not it is worth pursuing the degree. It will close doors for you – at the major airline level (note* I include LLC and Legacy carriers in the term “major airline.”) Most regionals don’t require a degree.

The accident – frankly, that just isn’t enough information to determine whether or not it is a factor. You will have to explain yourself at the interview (I’m thinking positively here that you WILL get an interview.)
Low time is most certainly the biggest factor. I wouldn’t anticipate a call from any airline with 650 TT right now…. Unless there is some unforeseen circumstance…maybe they aren’t attracting higher-time pilots…. Just do yourself a favor and don’t bet on it.

Age – this may, or may not, make any difference at all. It’s all about ROI for the airlines. I’ve personally seen many folks hired with regionals AND majors who were well into their 50s. Don’t let it stop you – just let it be a fire under your butt to get busy and rack up TT. You may take your age into consideration when/if you decide you want to move to a major airline and start all over at the bottom of the pay scale.
Originally Posted by airline NooB
Working for me:
- 20+ years of management positions
- Background of impeccable reliability and critical thinking
- Employment history is diverse but stable (7 yrs with current employer)
Yes, BUT… it won’t get you the interview. In the interview, it will only help if they are “on the fence” about whether or not you are worth the monetary investment. Keep in mind that when interviewers evaluate they are not determining whether or not you are a “good guy” they are determining whether or not you will pass their training program and someone they will want to fly with in the future. Yes, it most certainly looks a lot better than someone who has job-hopped over the last 10 years – they don’t appear too terribly stable.
Originally Posted by airline NooB
I dont know if it makes any difference:
- Former Deputy Sheriff
- Former State Investigator
- Former Emergency Medical Tech.
- Honorably Discharged from Army
- LOTS of airline buddy's offering to write me letters.
(Delta Line-Check Pilot, SWA Recruiter, United International Capt,
Half-dozen Regional F.O.'s)
First three, no – the others show you are accomplished and seem fairly driven.
Army – yes, it can help with those airlines who favor military backgrounds.
Lots of buddies walking in your resume – yes, absolutely. You never know their influence.
Originally Posted by airline NooB
Strongest selling point that they cant ask about:
I haven't missed a single day of work in my 23 years of full-time employment history.
I am fiercely (almost pathologicly) loyal to my employers (as long as they share the level of committment).
Great that you haven’t missed a day of work – and it will serve you well in the interview. But let’s not put the cart before the horse – you’re asking about what direction to take in order to GET the interview.
Ok, pathologically loyal is a little creepy.

On a side–note…I recommend you subscribe to an aviation newsletter of sorts. Get to know how airline management and labor groups work together – it’s different in the airlines. I’m gonna go out on a limb here, but I would venture to guess that very few pilots actually feel like the airline reciprocates with loyalty. I wouldn’t set out looking for that in a future employer. You may be disappointed.
Originally Posted by airline NooB
I have some cash in reserve for "emergencies"
a) Is there any strategic value in acquiring a Q-400 or 737 type rating in hopes it might make me more appetizing for interviewers?
b) Is it wiser to put that money/time into getting my CFII to fly around in circles, building time/experience to get me through the "minimums gate"?
c) Do letters of recommendation actually do anything or are they scratch-paper for the interviewer?
a) absolutely not – not at this stage of the game for you. I know, many schools will make it seem a type-rating, or some turbo-fan systems program, is invaluable and will make you irresistible….NOT the case. Keep in mind that they want your money. The only reason to get a type is if it is needed (SWA requires it for class) or it is free. Another important point to remember… if you have a type it open a whole new can-o-worms at the interview. The interviewers will EXPECT that you know more about that airplane, so be prepared for intense systems questions. Honestly, unless you have time in that aircraft for which you are rated….it’s worthless.

b)Is it wiser than what? I certainly recommend it. Not to mention it may be one of your only options at this point. The “minimums gate” isn’t just a gate – it’s an expected level of experience. Key word: experience. Many people will buy time and literally fly around in circles just to build the “minimum time.” Trouble is, when they are in the interview their lack of knowledge, and skill, will show through in spades. It’s not just about the minimums, it’s about learning how to deal with the inevitable circumstances that arise.

c) Yes, they absolutely carry weight. An airline will “trust” a current employee more that someone who they don’t know. The caveat is that the best letters to have are from current employees (line pilots) who can attest to your flying skills – meaning, they have flown with you in the past. Don’t burn bridges either – a disparaging letter will carry as much weight as a recommendation. This is a TINY industry and you’ll be surprised who you run into in the future.

[continued in next post]


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