Originally Posted by
Soyathink
Sorry your being furloughed but the attitude won't help you. UPS hasn't discounted services for employees ever. You work hard to ship packages right? So does over 400k of other employees than you. Ask the Fed Ex driver what his benefit package is like? Ask the Fed Ex guy what his salary is like. Sure they get a small discount on shipping. I'd rather have the pay. The point I'm getting at is you still would benefit if you shipped UPS. You didn't look at the big picture. Did that money you saved by shipping somewhere else less expensive prevent your furlough? Bashing UPS in a public forum helps how?
You don't have to like UPS. Remember UPS spent alot of money on everyone of the pilot group. They didn't have to hire you. They didn't have to spend the money in training cost on you. They did. They took a chance on you to do a great job for what you get paid well to do. Age 65, fleet retirements, and the economy caused the furlough. Look at how many three man crew jets Fed Ex still has compared to UPS.
Again, I am sorry you are losing your job and hope you find a company your happy to work for very soon. I've been there and know how it is.
Soyathink,
Thanks for the kind words about my furlough. I think it's fair that I have a bad attitude towards UPS. Does bashing UPS in a public forum help ?
Why yes it does ! Venting allows me to keep my sanity for the poor treatment I have received by UPS' latest direction for the pilot group.
I guess it's better to vent than show up with an AK47, or become a drug addict, or a spouse abuser, or alcoholic, or a divorcee. In my opinion, before this accounting excercise is done, there will be individuals in the bottom 300 and beyond that will fall into the above categories. I'm able to use venting rather than the aforementioned pitfalls.
I know you wanted me to ask a FDX driver if they prefer to make 10% less than us and receive a discount on shipping. Well, I'd rather compare apples to apples. If you compare our UPS pilot compensation with our friends over at FDX you will see they do not make 10% less than us.
This forum posts the pay scales for both air units.
FDX:
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...rgo/fedex.html
UPS:
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...cargo/ups.html
In my case, I make 3.5 % less than my counterpart at FDX. Since I fly International, I receive an override for such that is 43% less than my good friends at FDX. I'm not trying to enter into a "who gets paid more" contest with the good folks at Purple, but; they don't make 10% less than us in order to justify their employee discount. The links above verify this factually. (Disclaimer: the 4a2B language aside from this point).
Did the money I saved by shipping with FDX or USPS prevent the furlough ? Respectfully, I can go in two directions with this.
First, let's say this furlough was about money. Even though I don't think that is the case, I'll play along. In your head multiply the number of airline employees and the number of UPS employees that use FDX because they give out a discount.
Let's say that number is 200k multiplied by $20 of shipping every year. For a second, don't get wrapped up in the numbers, but the product is $4 million dollars. We are constantly bombarded with "Go out and get sales leads". If I were to bring in a lead that generates $4 mil. in sales would that be worth considering.
HOWEVER !!!! I'm not convinced the furlough has to do with the advertised "belt-tightening", "right thing to do to further the business" , "savings we can wrap our hands around" claims made to us by managment.
I'll tell you why:
Scott Davis proclaimed the recession is over.
Kurt Kuehn exclaimed they have made more money than they know what to do with with regards to paying dividends.
AND, the CEO received a 6.2% increase year over year in compensation. I guarantee you, he makes more money than me. If you need factual links to back these up, please tell me. I will post these for your reading.
So I don't have to like UPS ? Well, I'd like to like UPS especially since I was promised this would be the last job I'd ever have for the next 25 years or so.
You make a good point that UPS spent money to train me ? And why would they do that ? Maybe because they were opening an Anchorage base (ANC) and changed their tried-and-true hiring practices to select candidates with wide-body, overwater experience.
Did you ever consider the job I left to come here. How about the many new-hires that separated from the military, or the ones that uprooted their families' lives to move to ANC. Now that they are out of work, who is going to pay for them to move back home to their support networks to endure the furlough ? It won't be UPS. With respect, the villian doesn't appear to be the new-hire, now furloughed individual; it appears to be the employer that is masking this unjust labor snafu against some of it's previously loyal employees.
Soyathink, would you treat your people that way if you were a CEO ? Would you want to be treated that way ?
Next, you claim the economy is to blame for the furlough. I actually agree with you. Certain data suggests the PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain) will drag down the E.U., devalue the Euro, and sink the Global Economies into a double-dip recession.
However, I content the one of the metrics that I find valid is comparing pre-recessionary levels with current levels. Cargo being up 33% in Asia (when compared to recessionary times) isn't that spectacular. Cargo being up 5% over than pre-recessionary levels is. Recent data suggest we are near or exceeding pre-recessionary levels. So furloughs may have been justified using your argument. However, also using your argument recalls (or at least the suspension of furloughs) is just as valid. Furthermore, everone else is recalling, they can't all be wrong can they ?
Lastly, how many 3-man jets does FDX have. Please (anyone) correct me if I'm wrong, but the above link to FDX suggests 77 Boeing 727s. Your argument, I presume is they have 77 airplanes with an extra seat and therefore they need more pilots. This argument has teeth only insomuch as what staffing formula is used. Not to bore you with details, but UPS' staffing formular right now is a "band-aid" approach given their choice to reduce the labor force and the resultant of our JA/OT ban. Your argument may have merit, but in the current climate it's just too fluid for me to be convinced that UPS has their staffing under control.
Again thanks for your words about my furlough. It will be #5, but it will be a first being furloughed from a company that is profitable.
FF