Let us also remember the aircraft lease cost game as to why we have had our pay rates destroyed. An airline seldom remains particularly profitable for long, in that the major shareholders in a given airline usually have a leasing company of their own or have an "influencing position" with an aircraft lessor or financing group. That situation results in continual restructuring of the aircraft cost to the airline which is almost always the highest cost on an airlines books, above fuel and labor. When the airline shows a profit for "too long" the airline officers harvest their bonuses and stock options(immediately liquidated of course) and then the lease payments at the airline go up dramatically. Then the airline looks like it is barely profitable,,,,Guess what management says no money for pilot payraises....This song repeats itself over and over within the industry some capital schemes are more obvious than others,, but the lease rates mysteriously go up about time to tell the pilots that there is no money for us...The biggest adjustment made in the industry's last round oc CH11's was in leases(dollar volume no %'s) Wages of pilots didn't bankrupt anybody,,,The moral of the story is don't try to be reasonable they will only use that against you make them find the money to pay pilots properly.