alfa,

Thanks for the response. Basically, what you are saying is that at this point, we don't know what we should really expect from the company because the negotiating environment that we will find ourselves in, in a year or so, is uncertain.

So, my point is, why are people coming up with reasons why we won't get what we want before we even ask? Why are people trying to protect the company against future losses, and thus future givebacks on our part, in a market that cannot be predicted?

The whole "I don't want to ask for too much, even though the company is making record profits, because the company might lose money later on and make us give it back" plan is pretty lame to me. Mainly because, as you state, no one can predict the market. So, it is just as likely that Delta will be profitable over the life of the contract as it is likely that they will lose money every year. There are unseen factors abound, good and bad. Hell, what if, starting now, Delta has 37 years of profitability like Southwest has had? With the above mindset, we would be less and less likely to ever ask for our fair pay because in our mind it would be more likely that the next contract period would be the one where Delta lost money. It would be only after the old contract expired that we would know that we should have asked for more money.

Another thing (I believe you were asking me about this.), I feel this whole APA, AMR, pattern bargaining, and ALPA waiting for the leap-frog effect thing, needs to be looked at differently. I know we are not operating in a vacuum and I know the company is very much aware of what is going on over there. I'm sure they don't want our costs to outpace AMR pilots pay so much that they would be operating at a disadvantage. But, come on, let's (ALPA and DAL) think outside the box. I ride on the crew bus with AMR pilots all the time. They are ****ed of in a serious way. If DAL gave us what American pilots are seeking without a fight, AMR would have to give into their pilots demands. If they didn't, it's quite possible they wouldn't be able to operate an airline-- their pilots would probably wreck unbelievable havoc. If the shoe were on the other foot, what would you do?

Waiting for pattern bargaining and leap-frogging should not be an option when dealing with American Airlines. Our case to our union should be that we don't need American pilots to lead us to higher pay-rates. Our case to the company should be that AMR will have to follow what DAL pays. It's easy to see that American pilots are not in the under-cutting mood. So, you (Delta) should pay us now while you can reap some benefits. And if you or I or any other pilots have any doubts, our case to ourselves should be that we owe it to ourselves to keep our expectations high. Among other things, look at how smoothly this merger has gone, we deserve it.

New K