Firstly, sorry about the lack of responses, but I have been very busy with school and work. Secondly, thank you all very much for the massive amount of insight and advice. I definitely see where everyone is coming from and you guys have definitely changed my perception on how to go about things in a very beneficial way.
Originally Posted by
FlyPurdue
I am a recent (December 2010) graduate of Purdue Univeristys flight school - After graduation i had no less 3 non flying job offers. I ended up turning them all down as I had a full time CFI gig lined up that is getting me to the airlines. While at uni, i made sure to diversify my background by being involved with many organizations to help me get those 3 offers. So don't just shun the 'aviation degree'. I learned a ton about aviation, had profs that cared, and made life time friends. Purdue gives you experices that no one else in the world can offer, a Phenom 100 PIC type rating with time in type as PIC, 727 level C simulations that really teach you how to manage aircraft systems, energy, and most important, crew.
Now once I have a few years as a line pilot - I'm going to get my MBA, while at uni I made sure to get all the pre recs out of the way so i can attend business school, with my goal to eventually be a mgmt pilot specializing in marketing. Purdue really helped me get to this point and I would def check it out!
Let me add to what I said earlier about an aviation degree, I do NOT feel that it is worthless, its just that in my opinion it is just not something I am interested in. I would just rather have a degree in something else, but I am sure there are tons of jobs where an aviation degree would be beneficial, its just not for me.
And about Purdue in general. I am sure that it is a great school with a fantastic flying program, its just not something that works for me financially, because everything comes down to $$$, and I doubt a four year program at Purdue is cheap...
Good luck!
Originally Posted by
forgot to bid
imho- go to school first, don't major in aviation, fly for fun, intern at the airline that you want to one day be at, go to ATP after you graduate, instruct, go to the regional with a fast upgrade and go to the majors.
That's what I've seen. I started taking lessons when I was 14, did everything on the day of the minimum age except for the CFI which was at 19. Instructed at Auburn until I graduated, went to a regional, went corporate, went to Delta. Every job except the corporate was due to college friends and especially the Delta one. And the Delta one I got the interview because of my college roommate who I talked into taking lessons while I was instructing, who interned at Delta as an aerospace engineer undegrad, went to ATP and all things considered fast tracked it to Delta and into the first class- a year ahead of me.
get a degree outside of aviation, you'll appreciate that when you're an airline job interview trust me, do ATP at once and spring board to the airlines. Don't skip on college, don't waste time in college and don't trust an online college degree to be done quickly. I knew a guy who left college and went to the airlines and was stuck at the regional for a while as he slogged through that degree and he'd been on his way to a better job sooner if he had just stayed in school. Don't box yourself in that corner.
As to the pilot shortage, I crammed 5 years of college into 3.5, I never took a summer off. By the time you finish college and do the ATP thing you might be on the front side of the hiring boom with a degree in hand versus at the bottom of a regional for several years with no degree in hand or close to being in hand when the boom takes off.
Also, piece of advice from an L1011 Captain who I believe was the youngest L1011 Captain at Delta... there is always someone who did it faster, younger and better then you'll ever do it, just enjoy yourself.
Just imho. Take it for what it's worth.
OH, and that college thing... my best friends to this day were my neighbors my freshman year, there is something special about that first year straight out of H.S. and besides that there are girls in college... GIRLS... I went from 14,000 coeds to a regional crewroom in Houston, there were no "girls", just maids, I didn't adjust at all.
You make the call.
You make some very good points, including two very hot points!
Originally Posted by
Phantom Flyer
Hello Airport Kid:
While I commend you for planning you life out ahead of time I really have to ask "what's the hurry ?". You seem hell bent on getting your certificates and ratings as fast as humanly possible thinking that's going to get you into the majors four years after high school. Perhaps you need to either speed your planning up so that you have a seat at one of the majors within the next two to three years or more importantly, stop and do some "realistic " planning.
1) Any obvious problems with your plan ? Yes, it's
completely unrealistic !
2) Getting hired at a regional after six months of "CFI'ing" ?
Not a chance.
3) I've known people who flew for a regional carrier and went to school and they said it was difficult managing both. The regional carriers are a job and while it's certainly possible to work and attend school, it a "tough row to hoe". Do you think you're Chief Pilot is going to drop a trip for you so that you can attend a lecture or a required lab ?
4) I think you'll have difficulty getting hired at a regional airline with practically
no experience and
no four year degree, even if one isn't required.
5) My overall thoughts: you seem to feel as though you have to get your certificates and ratings as fast as possible and you'll be "entitled" to a job at a regional and then naturally, a major carrier right after that. While I hate to discourage you, it doesn't work that way and your naive if you think it does. It's a tough route to get into the right seat at a major and most pilots have a four year degree, a lot of flight time in multi and/or turbo jet aircraft and have paid a price to build time.
Please don't misunderstand me. I hope that you can realize your dreams but I think your future would be better served if you stop and do some
realistic planning.
G'Luck Mate
Hey man, thx for the reality check lol. I have actually pretty much forgotten about the whole ATP thing, and will address what I plan on doing below...
Originally Posted by
gdpballin
Go to college first, get your partying done, then get your ratings.
Well said lol.
Originally Posted by
Phantom Flyer
I second the motion.
In a serious vein, you need to step back, quite trying to beat all of your high school buddies and do some actual "realistic planning" because it's lacking in your posts.
Having been involved in the hiring process at a major airline, I can tell you that you won't have enough time, experience or ratings to be seriously considered as an applicant at any major airline with your current "road map" for success, as you envision it. The majors look at the complete individual: total time, ratings, experience in an aircraft and want a well rounded new hire. The bottom line; would you want to spend a four day trip with this new hire in your cockpit ? Frankly, I'd rather have someone who has been to college and "paid their dues" because they know the value of a seat at a major and have earned the privilege of applying. That new hire will have the experience to be able to contribute in the cockpit because he/she has "been there and done that". Someone who has busted their tail to rack up ratings as quickly as possible and has little "real" flight experience isn't going far in the hiring process.
Take Forgot to Bid's advice...hey those Auburn Tigers are "OK" !
G'Luck in your quest.
Well from the sound of your and many others post's, my vision of getting to a regional and a major was quite obviously very skewed... I think the plan that I will lay out below will be a lot more realistic and I look forward to your opinion on that.
Originally Posted by
gdpballin
100% agree. Absolutely NO rush.
Few reasons why you should wait, as stated in this whole thread, one is the huge financial burden that will be put on you before you even go into college, then college loans on top of that...no fun.
The last thing I want while I am in college is to have a serious job (especially one that I want to do for the rest of my life). Hell, you might loose your medical during college due to something stupid and not even be able to fly anymore. IMO, you are doing this backwards. Get your degree and have something that you can fall back on, and THEN go into school.
Also, I don't think your idea to get your ratings as fast as possible is the best idea. Although a lot of people do go through schools (such as ATP) and do just fine, the key is to get GOOD training and become a safe pilot. This industry is rough and you want to be competitive.
You are young and have plenty of time to get into a pilot seat. Have your fun in college, its the best years of your life.
Couldnt agree more about not having to pay loans while enrolled in school full time. And I am definately going a more traditional route now, so I will be able to live a regular college life, and enjoy myself.
Originally Posted by
ATCsaidDoWhat
I think your assumption of the amount of flying you will be able to accomplish in the Chicago area, given the weather patterns, is excessive. Remember, the guy from ATP is a salesman first. His job is to get your money. If Mother Nature doesn't play ball, it's not his fault. So yes, you may well end up doing "repeat" lessons. Which will cost more money.
As others have stated; and I hate to throw another bucket of cold water in your face...you will not be competetive at all with those hours. To assume that just because you have a wet CFI ticket with an MEI attached to it, that someone will let you begin instructing ME students is not a stretch...it's a leap across the Grand Canyon.
Now...the issue of college and degrees. Good idea. Consider this. At respected schools, you will complete a well rounded 141 program with your comm/inst AND an AS degree in two years. You can then take an additional semester and pack in your CFI, II and ME. Armed with those, you will have a better than average opportunity (assuming you are a good stick and decent person) of teaching at the school in their program. Meaning building hours and experience. You can also continue in a four year program with a different discipline. A good example of that is Florida Tech. They have a full plate of various programs outside aviation. So do other schools.
Completely understand where you are coming from, and I actually am planning on doing something very similiar to what you just laid out..
I understand where you are coming from and your desire to go fast. I wanted to do the same thing. I ended up taking a year off between high school and college...a very wise move...and then went full bore at school. Got my 2 year and went back into the schools flight department and racked up 1500 hours in about 18 months, then landed my first regional job at 22. By age 24, I had been a Captain on two different airplanes, with a type in one and got hired by a major at age 24. But I also had 3,800 hours and a lot of turbine PIC.
I am hoping that if I play my cards right, take time to go to school and do alot more instructing and building time, that I will be able to do something similiar to what you did. But as you said, airlines arent hiring the bare minimums any more, so I am anticipating it to take longer than what you did it in... if that makes sense lol.
Times are different now. The push will be for more experience...not just the minimum hours...as has been the trend recently. As far as majors...and by that I also include the big cargo carriers like FedEx, UPS and Atlas... where the real money and growth will be in the coming years...it's going to be experience and hours.
Good luck!
Okay guys, hopefully this will sound a bit better to you guys...
As I mentioned earlier, I took a tour of Indian Hills, which is a pretty nice community college in my area. The main thing that attracted me here was that they have a pretty darn good aviation program. So I went up there to visit and really enjoyed myself. I got a really good opportunity to meet the instructors and chief pilots, see the aircraft, get familiar with the program and timeline, and even got to shoot an approach in their brand new full motion simulator!
Overall it was a very good experience, and its a very small program (less than 25 students) which I think will allow for alot of one on one time and some quality instruction. The price is also pretty competitive as well... it costs roughly $40K for my Private thru CFII... This price also includes my Associates of Science in Aviation.
After graduating the Indian Hills program I plan on attending my hometown 4 year university that my mom works at, which means I get 75% off tuition, allowing me to get my bachelors degree for under $6K, which is a pretty darn good deal if you ask me. This will allow me to have a minor in Aviation, and a major in something else, which is the best of both worlds in my opinion.
HOWEVER, there are a couple drawbacks to the two year aviation program... While it is substantially cheaper than ATP (By about $15,000...) I will NOT get my multi rating, Commercial Instructor certificate, or my MEI. Their reasoning about not including this in the program, is apparently, they have a connection with a local "friend of the program" who runs an airport that I can get my multi rating at... They said this would take about a weekend, because I will obviously have all my other ratings, and apparently a multi rating is pretty easy and quick to get, its just expensive...
While in working on my bachelors degree I can instruct to build some time and make a little money on the side, while working at my current job part time...
After I graduate however, not sure how that will work, but thats a ways down the road...
So here is a break down of this plan...
PROS:
Done in two years
Quite a bit cheaper (taking into account the lack of a multi rating)
Live a regular college life
GIRLS (see above)
Get a minor in aviation, a major in Business... BIG +
CONS:
No multi, CFMEI, or commercial instructor rating (not sure of the abbreviation for that lol)
So let me know what you guys think.... Thx again!