Notices
Flight Schools and Training Ratings, building hours, airmanship, CFI topics

ATP right out of high school

Old 02-15-2011, 08:56 AM
  #1  
On Reserve
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: C172
Posts: 13
Question ATP right out of high school

Hello everyone. I apologize that this is another "Hey I'm really young and want to know how to become an airline pilot," however I think my situation is a little different then the typical thread on here. Here goes..

Well, to start off, I am now 18 years old, and will be graduating high school in May. Over the past two years, I have come up with about a million different schemes and plans about what is the fastest, most practical, and most importantly, cheapest way of going about attaining my rating's. I have looked at multiple aviation programs at many different four year universities, however there are two large problems with going about it this way.

1) I want to get my licenses as fast as humanly possible, eliminating the need to "redo" lessons because I havent flown in weeks. This will also drastically reduce the cost over the period of a degree program. Plus, I do NOT want to wait four years to achieve something that with some hard work I could do in under six months!

2) I do NOT want a "Professional Pilot" degree! I have talked to many people, and know that employers dont really care about what your degree is in, and that having an aviation degree does not make me any more employable then the guy with an Art degree. I want to get a degree in something that I can fall back on, like Computer Science, that will make me competitive if for whatever reason I can not fly.


The Plan:

To attend ATP in Chicago this summer, right after I graduate high school, and enroll in the 150 day "Fast-Track" program. Once I have completed that, I will instruct for roughly the next 4-6 months using the guaranteed CFI job thing, so that I can build enough time to join a regional (ASSUMING, that the 1500 hour rule will not be in place ...)

All the while, I will be enrolled in an online degree program at Whatever State University, while I am flying. This will allow my ATP loan to be deferred until I graduate. Keep in mind, I will be paying for everything by myself, so this is very important and beneficial to me. So hypothetically, roughly this time in a year, I will be sitting in a right seat at Whatever Regional Connnection. I am more than aware of how much first year regional FO's make, but I think it will be enough to survive while I am going to school.

Then, after hopefully not to long, I will upgrade to the left seat, then if the whole "Pilot Shortage" (I know many of you guys on here of skeptical of this...) hopefully there be some hiring going at the Major's. So then once I complete my online degree, I will be able to move up to a major.

The whole idea behind this, is to mainly get a huge jump on my career and to build time as fast as humanly possible. And while all my friends are just graduating college, I will HOPEFULLY be a CA at a regional, ready to move up to the Major's.

So, if you dont mind, I have a few questions.

1) Are any obvious problems with this plan that I may be missing?

2) I know the ATP people are going to try and sell me on their program, but do you think it will actually be possible to get hired at a regional after CFI'ing for them for 6 months give or take?

3) Is it reasonable to be doing a degree program while flying at the same time?

4) Please correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge the regionals do not REQUIRE a degree, so is it realistic to assume I actually can get a regional job while I am still working on my degree?

5) Overall thoughts and opinions?

Look guys, I have been trying to figure out the best way to go about entering this field for what seems like forever, and this finally seems to be the best way of going about it. So any and all advice is more than welcome, and I really appreciate your guys' help.
AirportKid is offline  
Old 02-15-2011, 09:21 AM
  #2  
Self Employed.
 
SkyHigh's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Default Best laid plans

Planning is great. The reality however is much harder to predict. It is hard to say what even the near future will bring. Sometimes no matter how hard you try you will still have to wait until opportunity comes to find you.

No matter what you do most of what controls your future in the aviation lies in the unseen hands of others. There are times when airlines are not hiring, flight schools are full or loans dry up. Hope for the best but plan for the worse. Rarely does life pan out how we would like. This is coming from a one time 18 year old hopeful like yourself.

I would relax your expectations and give in to what the natural flow of opportunity presents to you. Be prepared to sacrifice for a long time before seeing any results. Hopefully it will not come to that but it is best to be prepared.

Not long ago it was common to have thousands of hours and turbine time prior to reaching a regional. It could go back to that again.

Skyhigh
SkyHigh is offline  
Old 02-15-2011, 09:31 AM
  #3  
Line Holder
 
tylervet's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: E175 CA
Posts: 61
Default

To be quick:

How will you pay for your training at the ATP school? You say you wish to defer the repayment by attending a university, so I can only assume you are taking out a loan. This seems near impossible to me. It will take a great deal of credit and a co-signer at the least.
Also, in order to defer your repayment on the loans, you must be enrolled full time at a university. It will be impossible to work at a Regional and attend school full time. A Regional requires you work an average of 18-20 days a month. I don't know much about online degrees, and whether taking full time classes online will allow you to defer your student loans, but this seems to be the only marginally possible way in my opinion.
You seem to have a good grasp on the industry. You are right to attempt to get on with a bottom of the bucket Regional as quickly as possible, and a have known a few guys who did what you are attempting after high school. It can be much more costly, and I imagine much more work, but hard work usually pays off.
2 of the 3 Regionals I worked for did not require a degree.
I believe being a CFI for 12-24 months is more realistic.

My background and route:
No money, I worked a part time job in High School to pay for my Private and Instrument.
Attended a well respected state university, and received my BS in Aviation Flight Science using student loans with co-signers for $90,000. My senior year I flight instructed at the school. Since graduating, I have worked for 2 Regionals and a Commuter and was furloughed from the first Regional.

Best of luck,

Tyler
tylervet is offline  
Old 02-15-2011, 09:43 AM
  #4  
On Reserve
 
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 10
Smile

Even though I am only 15, I have been planning my future as well, but don't take it for granted, this is just my opinion.

1) I would definitely recommend going to a University to study and not just do everything online so you can experience the campus life, make friends, party and study at the same time.

2) I am confident, yes.

3) If you are enrolling in the 150 day fast track program, you will have NO TIME. Also if you go to ATP take your written exams before you go!!

4) A University degree is not required for the regionals but will make you more competitive with their standards as most applying for them do have degrees

5) Everyone has his own opinion, here is mine.
Computer Science will not make you competitive when you get furloughed, 5+ years later. Technology is always changing and if you are not updated and having been in the workforce for so long.. I would call it wasted time.
Something like business might be a better idea. I would pick one of these options

- Get your PPL now, start college and in the first summer in between your freshmen and sophomore enroll in the ATP 90 day fast track program. After that instruct part time at an FBO while in college because you won't be able to get a job in ATP while busy with studies.

- Start flight training at an FBO or right after you finish if you are too busy, and plan on finishing at the MOST on the first two years and instruct the rest of the time. You should be out of college with plenty of hours and if not, you can always keep instructing.

- Finally, this option might and might not be suitable for you.
Even though people say an aviation degree is useless because you won't be able to do anything after being furloughed or losing your medical, so will a BS in any other field after such a long time. You have to enjoy the classes you take in college! Now, after the new 1500 rule no flight school will give you that many hours but via an aviation degree airlines lower their standards when hiring. This is adapted from the ASA hiring page:
Selection Process:

We seek candidates with 121 experience. However, candidates without 121 experience will be considered, especially graduates from a major aviation university and applicants with advanced jet training or experience. Multi-engine helicopter time counts as total time after the 50-hour MEL fixed-wing requirement.
You get all that when going to an aviation university! Also, aviation universities work through networking and some even get you a guaranteed interview with an airline! Don't take what they say here for granted! Do your own research!

Good luck!!

Alex
aviatoralex is offline  
Old 02-15-2011, 11:28 AM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Twin Wasp's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: Sr. VP of button pushing
Posts: 2,726
Default

Originally Posted by aviatoralex View Post
Also if you go to ATP take your written exams before you go!!
If you're 18 you can't take the ATP written. Since it'll expire in two years and you have to be 23 to get the ATP, you can't take the written till you're 21.
Twin Wasp is offline  
Old 02-15-2011, 11:30 AM
  #6  
On Reserve
 
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 10
Default

Originally Posted by Twin Wasp View Post
If you're 18 you can't take the ATP written. Since it'll expire in two years and you have to be 23 to get the ATP, you can't take the written till you're 21.
I think you misunderstood me. I said if you go to ATP (Airline Transport Professionals) do your written exams before you do the fast track program so you can have more time to focus on other things.
aviatoralex is offline  
Old 02-15-2011, 11:45 AM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 100
Default

Originally Posted by AirportKid View Post
Hello everyone. I apologize that this is another "Hey I'm really young and want to know how to become an airline pilot," however I think my situation is a little different then the typical thread on here. Here goes..

Well, to start off, I am now 18 years old, and will be graduating high school in May. Over the past two years, I have come up with about a million different schemes and plans about what is the fastest, most practical, and most importantly, cheapest way of going about attaining my rating's. I have looked at multiple aviation programs at many different four year universities, however there are two large problems with going about it this way.

1) I want to get my licenses as fast as humanly possible, eliminating the need to "redo" lessons because I havent flown in weeks. This will also drastically reduce the cost over the period of a degree program. Plus, I do NOT want to wait four years to achieve something that with some hard work I could do in under six months!

2) I do NOT want a "Professional Pilot" degree! I have talked to many people, and know that employers dont really care about what your degree is in, and that having an aviation degree does not make me any more employable then the guy with an Art degree. I want to get a degree in something that I can fall back on, like Computer Science, that will make me competitive if for whatever reason I can not fly.


The Plan:

To attend ATP in Chicago this summer, right after I graduate high school, and enroll in the 150 day "Fast-Track" program. Once I have completed that, I will instruct for roughly the next 4-6 months using the guaranteed CFI job thing, so that I can build enough time to join a regional (ASSUMING, that the 1500 hour rule will not be in place ...)

All the while, I will be enrolled in an online degree program at Whatever State University, while I am flying. This will allow my ATP loan to be deferred until I graduate. Keep in mind, I will be paying for everything by myself, so this is very important and beneficial to me. So hypothetically, roughly this time in a year, I will be sitting in a right seat at Whatever Regional Connnection. I am more than aware of how much first year regional FO's make, but I think it will be enough to survive while I am going to school.

Then, after hopefully not to long, I will upgrade to the left seat, then if the whole "Pilot Shortage" (I know many of you guys on here of skeptical of this...) hopefully there be some hiring going at the Major's. So then once I complete my online degree, I will be able to move up to a major.

The whole idea behind this, is to mainly get a huge jump on my career and to build time as fast as humanly possible. And while all my friends are just graduating college, I will HOPEFULLY be a CA at a regional, ready to move up to the Major's.

So, if you dont mind, I have a few questions.

1) Are any obvious problems with this plan that I may be missing?

2) I know the ATP people are going to try and sell me on their program, but do you think it will actually be possible to get hired at a regional after CFI'ing for them for 6 months give or take?

3) Is it reasonable to be doing a degree program while flying at the same time?

4) Please correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge the regionals do not REQUIRE a degree, so is it realistic to assume I actually can get a regional job while I am still working on my degree?

5) Overall thoughts and opinions?

Look guys, I have been trying to figure out the best way to go about entering this field for what seems like forever, and this finally seems to be the best way of going about it. So any and all advice is more than welcome, and I really appreciate your guys' help.
Your ATP loan will only defer while you are enrolled in school at ATP. I left ATP and did some course work at a major 4 year university and I am paying back the loan with NO way to defer it, I have argued time and time again with Sallie Mae. Their only response is if you aren't attending school and the school you took the loan for then no deferring, Just an FYI.
Also, Regionals like Eagle require you be 21 years old. Just a few things I have noticed.
OHPilot213 is offline  
Old 02-15-2011, 12:05 PM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Twin Wasp's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: Sr. VP of button pushing
Posts: 2,726
Default

Originally Posted by aviatoralex View Post
I think you misunderstood me. I said if you go to ATP (Airline Transport Professionals) do your written exams before you do the fast track program so you can have more time to focus on other things.
Yeah, been up too long. Why would anyone call a school that gets you a COMM cert ATP?
Twin Wasp is offline  
Old 02-15-2011, 12:38 PM
  #9  
On Reserve
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: C172
Posts: 13
Default

Wow, firstly guys I would like to say thank you for this amount of of responses so quickly. Now let me address some of these things as best I can.

Skyhigh: Yes, I completely agree with you that by no means can anyone predict how the industry will turn out in the future whether its one year or twenty. However, I need to prepare as best I can, no matter what ends up happening. I feel that building as much time as I can, and doing it quickly is the best way to go, and that is the only way to "future proof" my self if regional mins do go up. If you have any suggestions of how to do this, please tell me lol

tylervet and OHPilot213 : Firstly, yes, my parents will be co-signing the loan with me that will get me the initial flight training funds. After that however, it is solely up to me as far as paying that back goes. Addressing the deferment: First let me say that I by no means took what the guy at ATP said as truth during all points of the conversation, I do realize he is trying to sell me a product. However the guy at ATP (take this with a grain of salt) said if I enroll in a full time online undergraduate program, that their loan provider (Sallie Mae I think?) will be able to defer payment until 6 months after I graduate or stop taking classes, in my case I obviously will be graduating. This is being enrolled FULL time. I know this would be difficult, but I like to think that I am a pretty hard worker.

So please, tell me if what I am saying seems unrealistic. This may be me simply being naive, but while I am working as an instructor at ATP upon completion of the program, I will get what, 50 hours a month? So if I graduate with the guaranteed 250, then work for roughly six months, my TT would be about 550, a good chunk hopefully being multi time. So I guess what I am asking is this: Is it not reasonably possible to be picked up at a regional with that amount of time?

You say that doing it this way would also be much more costly, but I am confused by that. I was under the impression that once done with my training, I will not be spending any more money after that, just working for them to build time. So basically my initial investment would only be the 55K for the program?

As far as regionals age requirements... well that is still to be figured out I guess. But I would imagine (You would obviously know better than me, just my opinion) that somewhere as long as you have the time and the ratings, you would be hire-able. Like I said, I could definitely be wrong, but I just dont see why the age would matter as long as you have the experience and flight time.

aviatoralex: Firstly, please understand that I know perfectly well what not attending a traditional four year school means. Trust me, I party all the time, probably too much :P...

As far as the actual degree, I am going to disagree with you here. Considering that IT and the Technology industry in general is far and away the most profitable industry in the nation, Computer Science would be a very good option. There are hundreds of thousands of well paying IT jobs out there that I could get with a Computer Science degree. Just about everyone in business today has a degree in business, so you need something that sets you apart. As far as it being an outdated degree, this simply is not true. If thats the case, then every middle aged business person would not be competitive because they got there degree 15+ years ago. Degrees, in my opinion, do not really become outdated.

As far as an aviation degree, I have heard time and time again from my own instructor let alone multiple people here on APC that a degree in something other then aviation is the way to go. My current instructor and good buddy of mine, CFI'ed at ATP after graduating with an Aviation degree from a typical four year school. Now that he is out of a job besides instructing, he says that he wished he had gotten a degree in ANYTHING other than aviation.

Sorry if some thoughts are unfinished, but im in a hurry to head to work now, will post more later tonight. Thx again guys

Last edited by AirportKid; 02-15-2011 at 12:41 PM. Reason: grammar
AirportKid is offline  
Old 02-15-2011, 01:10 PM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 117
Default

Loans suck, why start your life off in debt? (Especially when your entry level CFI or Regional job is going to have really low pay.) Here's my suggestion: (1) Live at home so you don't have to pay rent (your parents will probably like this better than co-signing for a huge loan). (2) Enroll at and attend your local Community College, take whatever classes you want; Community Colleges are usually very inexpensive and they are REAL colleges; (3) Work a part time job (or two) to make money (4) Spend that money as you earn it, at your local flight school, to get your ratings. And yes, with good time management, you can do all these thing simultaneously, and even have some time left over for fun. If you are industrious, and work hard, in two years you will have an AA Degree (in whatever), and your Comm, ME, and CFI tickets..... and you are only 20. Spend 1-2 years CFI'ing or whatever aviation job you can find and you will be well poised, at 21-22 years old, for further advances in your aviation career...... and you won't be in debt.

BTW, for those of you who are 16 or 17 and still in High School, and looking for a future career in aviation, my suggestion would be to do steps (3) and (4) now and you can get a little head start on this sort of plan.

Just my two cents worth, YMMV.
mswmsw is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SYdude
Flight Schools and Training
16
03-15-2010 12:46 AM
flyman128
Flight Schools and Training
21
03-29-2009 12:52 PM
AV8ER
Regional
43
04-18-2007 01:10 PM
vs38viking
Flight Schools and Training
39
04-06-2007 04:46 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices