90 seat scope... are you kidding me

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Quote: Once upon a time the QX pilots offered the company "80s for 80 for 80."
They would fly the MD-80 for 80 hours a month for $80K a year. Never underestimate their ability or desire to undermine the mainline.
Which simply proves my point. SOMEBODY is going to be flying the larger CRs and Embraers on routes where they are the most efficient aircraft. Mainline unions ought to be encouraging THEIR management to buy thes aircraft to grab the business before some super regional develops them.
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Quote: Which simply proves my point. SOMEBODY is going to be flying the larger CRs and Embraers on routes where they are the most efficient aircraft. Mainline unions ought to be encouraging THEIR management to buy thes aircraft to grab the business before some super regional develops them.
Maybe not in the low 100's. You need an extra FA, that combined with mainline pilot costs makes the economics questionable.

80-100 seat aircraft are only limited by scope and mainline pilot costs.
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Quote: Maybe not in the low 100's. You need an extra FA, that combined with mainline pilot costs makes the economics questionable.
The cost of pilots barely matters, so the cost of an extra FA really doesn't matter. Delta has plenty of 110 seat 717s and has 109 seat aircraft on the way.

Regional airline management has spent decades making pilots think that crewmember pay is a big slice of the operating costs of a plane. That just isn't true. The cost of the crewmembers is only a big slice of the DEPARTURE FEES the regional airlines get.
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Quote: The cost of pilots barely matters, so the cost of an extra FA really doesn't matter. Delta has plenty of 110 seat 717s and has 109 seat aircraft on the way.

Regional airline management has spent decades making pilots think that crewmember pay is a big slice of the operating costs of a plane. That just isn't true. The cost of the crewmembers is only a big slice of the DEPARTURE FEES the regional airlines get.
Not exactly. Crew cost used to be the largest slice of the operating pie, but has been surpassed by fuel now that oil is no longer $9/bbl. Pretty sure crew cost is still #2 though.
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Quote: Not exactly. Crew cost used to be the largest slice of the operating pie, but has been surpassed by fuel now that oil is no longer $9/bbl. Pretty sure crew cost is still #2 though.
I have recent experience with business jets and lease, insurance, and maintenance were usually much higher than crew costs. If they weren't then how come most regionals have been able to issue $10,000 or more in bonuses to pilots? If crew costs were so high, then how are they still in business? Delta seems to have no problem issuing green slips regularly to cover the 717 flying at $500 an hour.
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Quote: I have recent experience with business jets and lease, insurance, and maintenance were usually much higher than crew costs. If they weren't then how come most regionals have been able to issue $10,000 or more in bonuses to pilots? If crew costs were so high, then how are they still in business? Delta seems to have no problem issuing green slips regularly to cover the 717 flying at $500 an hour.
Biz jets likely have different economics, due to the way they are operated. Each jet probably has 1-2 crews, instead of 5-7 crews like airlines.

Regionals may be cutting into their margins, or getting subsidies from major partners who need their feeders to survive. Or maybe they had the margin to spare due to cheap labor in the first place.

Majors can readily justify occasionally OT/premium pay as more cost-effective than staffing deep reserves for every contingency. But that's labor cost either way, just a question of whether to staff reserves at straight pay/guarantee or pay premium as needed. They have algorithms to fine tune that.
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Quote: Maybe not in the low 100's. You need an extra FA, that combined with mainline pilot costs makes the economics questionable.

80-100 seat aircraft are only limited by scope and mainline pilot costs.

Boeing has partnered with Embraer and Airbus with Bombardier because these companies have products that efficiently fill a niche. Look at the specs on the E185 E2 or E195 E2. They pay for their pilot costs at mainline rates in operating expenses compared to the airframes they replace. A 17% reduction in seat-mile costs over their predecessors is huge. And while flying with mainline crews might easily shove block time up by $200-$250 an hour, that's trivial compared to decreasing overall costs on that segment by 17%.

Even a small narrow body like a 319 costs $3 grand a block hour.

Reported Operations of More Than 3,300 Narrow-Body Jets

Pretty easy to come up with that $250 a block hour additional crew cost from the $510 a block hour operating cost savings.
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Quote: Which simply proves my point. SOMEBODY is going to be flying the larger CRs and Embraers on routes where they are the most efficient aircraft. Mainline unions ought to be encouraging THEIR management to buy thes aircraft to grab the business before some super regional develops them.
Ummmmmmm.......Muppet News Flash: ALa5ka IS a super regional, Legacy Super Regional to be exact!
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Quote: Ummmmmmm.......Muppet News Flash: ALa5ka IS a super regional, Legacy Super Regional to be exact!
Ok, that one I'll concede....
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Quote: Yet they flew airbusses when they bought frontier..... but that was only the “holding” company.
If the money is there, everyone realizes that Skywest could find away with holding companies and subsidiaries to get around Delta and UALs scope limitations, but it’s gonna be more expensive then just adding them to the Skywest cert.
that’s why you have to count on cheap labor to subsidize the extra cost Mgmt has to bear to bring these aircraft to group operations.
Delta Scope has an exemption for Shuttle America.
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