JFK Base
 

I know there are a lot of pilots on pins and needles waiting to find out if this base will stay open. I can say with confidence that it will close the end of August.
I know a lot of people are concerned on the VX side with a majority of the transcon flights heading to the Boeing. I can tell you from the Boeing side a lot of us our going to miss the North South flying and all the turns we will see vanish. This transition will be painful for both parties going forward.
I know a lot of you on the VX side understand the economics of the 321 and wonder why we don’t just use them on the east west routes. You are right, it does very well but we just don’t have that many of them. Going forward it will be an aircraft that will continue to fly transcons while the 320 moves almost exclusively to North South and Midcons.
I think it should be noted the 739 max should produce a very similar if not better CSM to the 321. It appears this will be the work horse of our growing fleet going forward.

The writing has been on the wall for a while. If this is true, even though it sucks for the east coasters, I think it is better for both pilot groups that this happens prior to SLI.

I’m not sure how you come about your information and I’m pretty sure NDAs are being violated left and right, but your sources on the Max out performing the 321Neo are inaccurate.
That’s why Airbus is winning and Boeing can’t figure out which way their tail is. Boeing should’ve invested in a 757 neo version.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4084643-can-max10-catch-a321neo

This isn’t better for both sides. This means no displacement rights to PDX or SEA.

I feel for the NY based Pilots but the writing has been on the Wall for a while now!
Removal of that base will actually improve pairing construction for the rest of the bases, imo.

How so, if 80% of our transcons are going away?

That would only be true if 1. VX route network stayed the same as it had always been (predominantly transon), 2. use S3RIUS for pairing construction, and 3. and not subject to AS's contractual rules for pairings and "fatigue mitigation rules"


None of those are true anymore going forward, so no the pairing construction is not going to get better. It's going to go down the drain, just look at Boeing pairings up/down the west coast. That's the Airbus future.


For those of us based at NYC, this news is pretty devastating no matter how much writing on the wall there is.

Can you expand on this? Do you mean to say closing JFK means VX can't displace into PDX or SEA? If this is true and in all likeliness it is, then closing by August means no SLI, and all VX pilots will only be based in LAX or SFO by the time the list comes out. Pretty smart on their end, for legacy Alaska guys there is already one over lapping base and only one new base to bid for once the list is out.


The real question is, does closing JFK A320 mean anything else opens besides LAX/SFO. If the model of 737 and A320 shifts from 20/80 to 80/20, I don't see how the Airbus can do 80% of the north/south without having to open up a SEA 320 or PDX 320.

PDX or SEA 320 base is something the company is considering. Of course the goal of the company is to achieve the least expensive outcome. Right now not knowing for certain the outcome of the SLI, the equation on their end can not be completed. All flying can be accomplished with a significant amount of 4 day trips. This is something that most likely works significantly better for the VX pilots. Once the SLI is done I think the company will make a decision on new domiciles. However, it is possible a SEA 320 base opens congruent to the closing of the JFK base. This would currently be considered a unlikely outcome though.

You got it exactly.

Even if they wanted to open a JFK Boeing base this August, no current JFK pilot could bid into it.

Base can't close in august. Read the TPA and contract people. There is a no base closer clause in the TPA which expires July 31st. Then there is a 90 day notice for base closer per the CBA. Which basically puts the base closer at 1 November. How that works into the SLI I don't know.

I would read it as the base stays until July 31st, I don’t t see anything in the tpa that says they can not announce it prior to 31st of July so any time at or after May 3rd is fare game.
“C. Base Closing. No Base will be closed, if at all, prior to the earlier of the Operational
Merger Date or July 31, 2018.” From the TPA

I totally agree. It’s all about wording. If it said that “no base will be closed and a notification of any base closure can only take place after July 31,3018, and will require 90 days after notification.” Then I can see it not being closed until end of October. The transition flying is happening in August, so I’m pretty sure the base reduction would start by then too.

You might be right, but there is still 90 day notice required by the cba.

Where does it state that in our contract? Sideletter?
I can’t find it in our contract...Thx!

The 90 days is in the contract, the July date is in the tpa.

Yes and 90 days from August 1 is about May 3rd. They can say on May third the base is closing efective August 1. I can not find anything that precludes them from doing this, it’s 90 days and after July 31.

Where?
I have been looking and searching electronically?!

MEA, while sharing information is good, just make sure you don't violate any NDAs when doing so.

JL just said a decision will be coming in the next month or two.

[QUOTE=MusicPilot;2578034]your sources on the Max out performing the 321Neo are inaccurate.
That’s why Airbus is winning and Boeing can’t figure out which way their tail is. Boeing should’ve invested in a 757 neo version.

There are very smart people crunching these numbers. I am sure some of the lower cost relates to the synergies of a single fleet type. I know you all love the bus, most everyone I know that flies it talks very highly of the 321... I am sure AS is playing a little game of chess with this all right now but from where I sit I don’t think you will see a bus with an Eskimo painted on it past 2024.

You know the last couple weeks have been pretty tough. I saw a lot of good will shared between these two groups for the first time in some while so I thought I would put out some information I know will affect many of you. Sorry. The only decision to be made over the next few weeks was when not if. The original date was spring of ‘19, something I shared 18 mos ago. The new date is August 31st. Next time I will just make stuff up exaggerate and lie like everyone else on FI. Honestly, if it were me I would want to know, I thought I was being nice.

Seems like the company has motivation to make a SEA BUS base before SLI. If it is after SLI Boeing guys will bid SEA BUS to take the senior positions. Making for a lot of $$$ in training cost.

Section 24 J - The company shall provide at least 90 days advance notice by posting its intent to close a base.

So many blows coming to the Bus drivers:

1.) changes in route structure
2.) line bidding (I do not want to hear about pairing construction)
3.) base closure
4.) less days off a month
5.) the hole on the “new” ID, damn thing is positioned incorrectly
6.) bye bye Bus

Ya’ll be safe out there!

Thx!
One would think that typing ‘base closing’ would yield this result but nooo... 😉

I don’t see an Eskimo on a tail past 2024 😏

Those are pretty good glasses. I have thought that my whole AS career but still here it is, only more Eskimos In fact. I guess I would rather see 2x more Eskimos in 2024 then none at all and if I were forced to bet this would be where I would place the money. Our management really wants to keep Alaska independent.

Boeing or Airbus it really doesn’t matter guys in the grand scheme of things. Honestly, we all need to make this place run like a clock, and do our best. A highly profitable company will provide the rates we seek, changes to scheduling (6.5 day guarantee really will fix almost all of it) and growth. And yes BM “we will take” scope from you for nothing, you will just give it to us.

For those of you that hate math
6.5 x 12 = 78 That equals 17-18 days off a month for everyone!

Thanks for the JFK base Closure information, however you get it..There’s about 125 of us out here that have lives on the east coast. A lot of guys that live in PA, NJ, And of course NY that drive to work. A lot of us that commute from NC Down to FL. This is going to sting pretty bad. That’s just the nature of this business though, bases come and go. Just hurts when if effects you and your family. It doesn’t make sense to me that they’re closing it, but I’m just the average line pilot.

Here’s to hoping it doesn’t last that long and we merge with JB!!

Amen!

B6 merger announcement before the base closes IMO

If Al Gore is right, you won’t see an Eskimo anywhere! :p

Closing the base is ridiculous, but for an airline that lives it’s life with its eyes closed I expect nothing less.

Curious, is there anything to stop them right now from giving a 90 day notice to close the JFK base (eg, 60 CAs 60 FOs) and open a SEA320 as 60 CAs, 60 FOs, before the SLI comes out? I wonder if they close JFK where the openings are created and in what numbers.

Count on a SEA 320 base announcement coincident with the JFK closure announcement imo. Silver lining - it'll be before the sli rebuttal testimony.

A bid should post mid to late May displacement JFK openings SFO 18CA and LAX 35CA apx #’s... still crunching

I am pretty sure no SEA 320 base. I believe the company would, might, will open only with a 737 SFO base. They hate opening bases as it costs money. Right now they are confident in the power of 4 day trips... they have to pay for an overnight somewhere, may as well be SEA and SFO.

Base closures? Remember the ANC MD base? They opened and bid it. Paid people's moving expenses since it was a new base INCLUDING shipping two cars to ANC.

The Russia flying was cancelled while the pilots were still in training, but since the base was opened they had to keep it open for 6 months or they would have had to buy everyone's houses that moved up. They still had to pay moving expenses for everyone who got displaced from the base. Two times $15K for every pilot who moved.

They kept it open 6 months and one day. 10 crews, 4 lines, one two day pairing: ANC-SEA-SMF, layover, SMF-SEA-ANC.

Never put even the most ridiculous base opening/closing decision past them.

JFK base
 

Worst case scenario I was hoping they would open a 737 JFK base. JFK is a very senior base, with its closure other bases will be effected. Time to update my apps

It’s posted:

JFK base closed August 31st....

How many times have I made stuff up?
You all laughed and made fun of Me... AJ telling me to read the contract and that obviously I was an idiot.

I am very sorry to those affected. I really was only trying to help and give you a heads up.

I think that is why this board is so screwed up you tell the truth and all the children cuss you out.

I don’t doubt what you say, but if your airbus info is correct we are all screwed. That is stagnation for a long time. “Come to Alaska, where we will never shrink and surely never grow”

A mixed fleet could continue indefinitely, or we may quickly return to a single fleet type, depending on many variables, all of which are being worked out right now. Rest assured though, if the economy begins to struggle at all, we will quickly move to zero growth and a single fleet type.

I would say the safe money is placed on a return to a single 737 fleet type over the next 6-10 years.