Reactivity

Do whatever you want, but don't come back here and whine about it later.

av8or

Yes.... exactly. Cause god forbid anybody ever take issue with “The Most West Coast” contract.

Because we’re in negotiations, there’s a pretty solid contract comparison book that one of your Alaska friends can snag you a copy of. I’d get a copy, comb over it’s comparison to JB, look at their A/C orders, and expansion/hiring plans vs ours, and then roll the dice. Best of luck to you. 👍🏼

cmrflyer

Dude, don’t muddy the water with facts!!!
These people all need to believe they made the right decision.

Happydayz

Thx everyone for your insightful comments.
Upgrade times at AS? I am assuming LAX/SNA. Reserve times for new hires?

HD

KnockKnock

Who’s to say who made the right decision? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You can’t fault anyone for coming here or not, staying or leaving. We’re not drones pumped out of a factory. We all have our own needs and most of us go to where we can meet those needs. At the end of the day, this is just a job and you can’t deny that doing this job from where you live is way easier than commuting across country for it.

For the OP, go ask this same question over on the JB boards, you’ll get the same 50/50 responses. There’s dog****** hidden in every contract. I too have a buddy at JB asking about AS because he wants to come west. As av8or said, look at a contract comparison and decide if it’s worth the commute. Upgrades were running at 4 yrs 11 months, but now that the base bidding is open to all you can probably add a couple of yrs to that. We’re apparently hiring for the rest of the year but unless something changes, it just for attrition with no measurable growth. But as you know, things change rapidly in this industry so who knows what will happen in the next year. Good luck.

Noob2015

Latest upgrade was 4 yrs 11 months. Reserve depends on the airframe. If you're on the bus you can expect a lengthy stay in the ranks of the reserves (year or more), and a SFO base. If you're 737 LAX is the junior base.

I expect all new hires will go bus.

All Bizniz

I see what you did... lol

Agreed, any system can burn you if you don't bother to learn it, whether or not it has/hasn't been demonstrated to be clearly superior to another/others....

All things being equal tho, (and that's the key.... you have to normalize the comparison, where the contract languages are roughly the same), PBS offers much, much, more flexibility and predictability, in many more controlling aspects of one's schedule and QOL right from the outset, and for much deeper down the seniority list.

On an extreme, I think if most pilots HAD to choose between the flexibility of getting their desired dates for DAYS OFF vs getting their DESIRED TRIPS, the ability to select DAYS OFF would probably win hands down.

In real life that's one big benefit of PBS that extends even to the most junior Line Holders and on top of that they might be able to snag a few DESIRED TRIPS. With Line Bidding however, even the most senior Line Holders will be hard pressed to find a line that gives them ALL the desired DAYS OFF dates for the month AND the TRIPS they desire.

Having lived through these past few months of AS line bidding, I feel like a mad scientist with each monthly bidding event... opening this valve here with my left hand, capping that line there with my right foot, pressing this button with my chin, all while plugging that hole with my right thumb in a vain attempt at wrangling a somewhat decent schedule/QOL out of this system of sorting Lines, then Step 1 and Step 2, etc......and the work arounds!!!.... It's insane I tell you!! lol

And I get your point; many of us don't take the time to digest the information available, but OTOH, we do have many pilots here, not just coming from the VX side mind you, who have experienced and have bothered to learn the ways of both systems and are not just speaking in hypotheticals.

coolyokeluke

That's funny

I've flown with senior pilots who are dedicated to hard lines. In the course of a 3 day trip I bet they spent 4+ hours going through the bid packets. That's a lot of work - every month.

And first and second step is largely useless if you are junior. I've been successful in only one trip trade in ten attempts.

I've lived under both hard lines and PBS and I am ambivalent with a few exceptions. People need to understand that PBS is a generic description and that the devil's in the details - and there's A LOT of details. PBS won't make things better without the Union controlling it. I think a lot of the resistance against PBS from hard line bidding advocates is that they don't trust Angle Lake. Vacation language would have to change too.

I believe that a PBS system with good rules would benefit Alaska pilots. But would we get that? Maybe, maybe not.



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

KnockKnock

I agree, our line bidding is archaic and I’ll look at any system that improves our flexibility and QOL. But really, my main point is that there are gotchyas in every contract/system and until you take the time to learn and work with each, there’s a potential to get hosed. I believe commuting across the country, even under the best of conditions, negatively effects QOL more than poor contract language while living in/near your base. That’s just my personal opinion formed from experience. Are there big enough difference in the AS/JB CBA’s to warrant the commute? I guess that’s up to the individual to decide. If the OP’s top priority is living on the Left Coast, AS will get him/her there immediately.

All Bizniz

Yes, I thought about that and agree. If you live on the West coast, as bad as the scheduling is, it's better than commuting to the East coast to fly for JB..... and I'm a fan of JB...

That's 30 - 40 more extra hours a month (unpaid) in a pressurized can and losing 4 or more days of your own DAYS OFF. Your body and your family don't need that...