AS is a major, and has furloughed.

If the economy tanks, or there is some other serious catastrophe, we should still insist on negotiating a contract with significant Pay, QOL, and Scope improvements.

The only difference could(?) be that if the situation is truly serious, and obvious to all sides, we perhaps agree to set aside only those parts that would significantly increase the airline's financial burden immediately. Later on, the rest of the agreement would then automatically kick in, based on some predetermined metric, once there's an upswing in the economic cycle.

That way, we wouldn't be left stuck with a concessionary contract, and later come to regret it as the airlines once again start making super profits and are unwilling to share in the windfall.

I think this time around, we have to take a different approach to contract negotiations during a downturn, and have the conviction to stick with it if we find ourselves in that scenario. History tells us that the economy will ALWAYS come back, despite what would be management's predictable doom and gloom pronouncements.

No plausible contract (even industry leading) can retain sub-40 pilots. Between retirements, widebodies, variety, and nonrev destinations AS can't hold a candle.

They might be able to get by as a decent option for older west coast types, career changers, etc.

I disagree. I'm going to introduce a word that most Alaska pilots have never seen before.

Incentives.

What sort of premiums could incentivize pilot retention? Airlines that can't compete on career progression will have to compensate elsewhere. Schedules with lots of time off. Fast vacation accruel. W2s 30% above the big 3 in comparable fleets.

Pilots are not monolithic. Some will choose a small company with great pay and QOL over widebody SJS. Think 90s Southwest.

Declaring that Alaska cannot compete is just an excuse to not even try for better.

You are spot on there. If Alaska can go to the job fair and honestly look a pilot in the eye and say, sure we don't have 787's, but we do have the best quality of life in the industry and with all of that extra money we pay, you can just buy a ticket Paris rather than struggling with the non rev life, they will have no problem attracting and retaining pilots.

Ummmm, y’all might not have heard it, but BM and SD have already answered this question of “incentives” with the reply “West Coast based”, “route structure”, and…. our “culture”. I mean, that doesn’t sway you away from everyone else, I don’t what would.

Because incentives don’t exist at Delta, American, and United? Whatever incentives we get, the big 3 will more than 1-UP it.


Even in this desperation time, as of right now there are ZERO premium trips (150%) in opentime systemwide for CAs. Why offer 150% when people pick up at 100%. Meanwhile at the big 3 they offered up to 300-400% when the going got bad.

I did not say we cannot try to be better. But your answer is a one off contract bargain cycle to convince a newhire sub 35 that has 30+ years left? Seniority is still seniority, and movement is still movement. We have a young-ish pilot group with relatively low retirements in the next 10 years. The majors lose more than half their list in that same time. Widebody SJS? That’s a new one. But even if you don’t want it, more pay at AS doesn’t make up for moving ~700 numbers in 10 years and be 66% then (barely out of bottom third). Anyway, one contract cycle isn’t going to be enough to keep someone from leaving here because “incentives!”

You don’t make a 30+ yr career decision on a 3 yr contract we might be signing in 6 months.

Like I said, Alaska will have to be better than the big 3 in the incentive game over the long term if they want to have a chance of maintaining a pilot group. I'm not sure what your point about premium is. We are talking about retention and Alaska just had its worst exodus month in its history.

Whatever man. No one will change your mind about anything. You come here week after week spouting the same ideas but with different flavors. This week's version is "Alaska can't compete." Last week's was "Recession imminent. Alaska won't compete for pilots." You'll just keep saying the same crap with different spins on it.

Alaska should bring back the pension. It would set them apart and also lock people in once they got a few years under their belt.

Alaska Management would rather close the doors and go out of business before they agreed to a contract that would pull young pilots away from the big 3. Whatever deal we end up with, might slow attrition, but it certainly will not stop it. Much cheaper to expand the training facilities 3x over and accept the position as a stepping stone to a more serious career. Sure. It's a shot to their massive ego and insufferable arrogance that has sustained them all these years...but they'll get over it.