Wow. Alaska pilots are strangely defensive. I get it, we are all locked in with seniority and human nature does this weird thing where we have to justify our decisions. WN has our few guys like this too, but for the most part, we are a pretty pragmatic group these days that understands pilots come and go based on a lot more than a pay rate.
WN is a contract cycle behind. You are literally comparing apples to orange popsicles by comparing Alaska rates to current WN rates. WN will get a TA soon and the pay rates will either lead the industry or the TA will get voted down. Once our contract is ratified, then we can whip it out and start measuring. Until then, hyperbole like saying one or the other is dragging the industry down is ridiculous.
If I lived in Seattle or Anchorage and wasn't moving, I would seriously consider Alaska over SWA. Anywhere else....let's just say I would do what is best for me and my family. There is no getting around the fact that Alaska is a great airline with an outstanding product that is hemmed in by its competitors to being a very niche west coast airline. SWA is currently a dumpster fire, but is literally too big to fail. In the airline oligopoly world right now, you are either huge or you are for sale.

 

I know, right?!? And now I'll be flying a trip and the FO (with ~1,600 hrs TT and 100 hrs turbine time) complains that none of the three legacies has called yet "and my app has been in for, like, a month." (This actually happened the other day.)

I remember when Amflight wouldn't let you touch one of their basket case Piper Lances without an ATP. (Then again, considering the night cargo runs in the winter over the icy Sierras in a clapped-out piston single that the job required, perhaps they were on to something.) I also remember right after 9/11 when we had high time regional guys come to our flight school begging for a part-time CFI job, none of which existed. Plus more than a few furloughed legacy guys.

I remember having to pay for your own ATP, and if you wanted an interview, pay for a type rating. Remember the 'spaceflight time' checkbox on SWA's app? Even as recently as 2019, if you wanted to get on at AS, or SWA, or really any of the majors, in reality you needed 1000 TPIC minimum and a CKA letter.

It is amazing how the industry has changed. I graduated college in 1994, when the military was RIF'ing countless pilots and closing bases. Civilians had almost zero chance of getting to mainline. Even getting *any* kind of paid flying job was difficult. Things got a bit better in the late 90s and then 9/11 happened (just as I had accumulated all my ratings and hours and was applying to the regionals, all the legacies furloughed.) Hiring picked back up again in maybe '04 for a few years, then '08 happened and basically nobody got hired for the next 4 years. I had a UAL buddy who got hired August '01, furloughed the next month, recalled in I think 2004 (?), then furloughed again in '08. Then we had a decent run 2013-2019 until the 'rona.

Somewhere there must be a graph showing all Part 121 hiring stats throughout the years. It would be fascinating to see. So many stories to be told. When you talk to the old-timers who lived through the late 70's and 80s (deregulation, Frank Lorenzo, the CAL strike, Eastern / Pan Am / Braniff going under, TWA being folded into AA, and so on and so forth...the East guys who through some awful strokes of luck found themselves as 20 yr FOs, the guys who found themselves as 10 year FEs)...how different it is today. I was a kid during the '80s, so had no clue about any of this, but have had the fortune to talk with guys who lived through all that. What a different reality they experienced.

"Flying the Line" should be the Day 1 Indoc assignment for all new 121 pilots.

Wow, I really sound like a grumpy ol' pilot, don't I?

 

You never know. He may have flown with the one pilot who left AS for WN in the last year… lol

 

dang you’re right my bad

 

You realize our union publishes our attrition numbers right, and any info they have on where pilots went. Some say some dont…

 

is there a point you’re trying to convey? Looking at the number of people who left and the number of people who went to what company each month you can see the majority does indeed disclose where they go.

 

must be an alpa national publication….

 

Please, help me understand. Yes, openers and things management dangles to us via email are not offers. Things they bring to the negotiating table and our NC says go pound sand are. A good NC will never bring anything to the the pilots that is not ratifiable. This notion that you have to reject the first TA and fire the NC seems ridiculous.
Once again, please tell me how it is supposed to be done.

 

Wrong again. The union conducts exit interviews. They give us monthly updates on attrition and where people are going. The data may go to National but it is sent to us by our local MEC.

 

right…and I’m sure it’s 100% comprehensive, forthcoming and accurate. Lol