Are you suggesting that you know what the next 12 to 15 years have in store for Alaska? No one does. I hope someone hired today doesn't have to go through a 5 year increase in mandatory retirement age and another Great Recession. Unless there's a merger or other drastic change to the business plan, we will see upgrade times start to fall.

According to APC, the junior captain at SWA was hired 9 years ago. Do you think someone hired there today is looking at a 9 year upgrade? Doubtful, likely longer, but admit that no one really knows.

You can't just take a snapshot of the longevity of current upgrades and tell a new hire that's how long it will take him.

You're a little harsh Packrat. Maybe Mudhen was talking about ROIC, which Alaska did have Southwest beat.

Do the math
 

That's not it at all. No one has a crystal ball. I'm telling them to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

And no, you cannot tell someone how long it's going to take to upgrade. Nor, can you tell them in new-hire indoct, "Welcome to your last airline." It's all relative. The point being, it might be longer at Alaska relative to elsewhere.

It's all about the math. The choices and options afforded elsewhere and the negatives specific to Alaska might make Alaska less than someone's first choice.

The upgrade at Alaska is not going to snap back five years to the nine year mark just because the age 65 lump in the python finally exits the snakes anus. Changes concurrent to age-65 adversely affected progression and QoL.

The increases in productivity, seat mile growth only, the loss of trips touching and bank vacation, reduced credit for training and vacation days, selling back your vacations, working on your vacations, reserves working on their day off, building your lines up to FAA limits pilot to pilot and FAR 117 all make for increased upgrade times and stagnation in the right seat and decreases in QoL.

I jump-seat on Alaska a lot. One of their own Union Negotiators (R.D.) told me that they (their union) believe that the average pilot at Alaska is still going to be a Captain many more years than an FO. Therefore, their contract must take care of the captains. Well, they did just that. Whether or not what he said is still true remains to be seen. But, in the mean time, there's a whole generation of FOs at Alaska who would argue that their career earnings have been adversely affected by their union's negotiation results.

Interestingly, the last Alaska contract made the captains whole again at Alaska with respect to pay. They negotiated a captain pay that brought them back above Pre-Kasher. They didn't do the same for the right seat. FO's are still making less than pre-kasher, even after taking up to a 35% pay cut. To add insult to injury, they're looking at longer upgrades due to the increases in productivity given.

So, the point again, is that due to things specific to Alaska, like culture, history, work rules, size and the pansy factor, Alaska might not be your first choice in TODAY'S hiring environment.

On a related note, SWA announces increased hiring due to older pilots getting more vacation days with increased longevity. Why? Because they still have trips touching. On the other hand, Alaska announces reduced hiring because they announced vacation buy backs.

On a related note, SWAPA and SWA Captains recognize an increase in upgrade times. They respond by giving their FO's a higher percentage of captain pay. Alaska says you'll be a Captain eventually. In the mean time eff-off.

Did SWA furlough? No.

8 years and Christmas off this year. I fly my line and go home. 72hrs this month while working 2 of 4 weekends. No all-nighters. No commuting. Guys getting hired today won't have to eat the 5 years the geezers imposed on us. Hopefully they won't have the additional pain of almost 10% of the seniority list furloughed. That killed me and you. The Eskimo is doing well and we got a nice bonus. I'm happy working for a healthy company. Who knows what the future holds but I'm reasonably happy today. Dont get me started on ALPA though. I'm not saying it's all unicorns and rainbows, but it's a lot better than it was.

I'm sure he's a very nice guy. He's risen to where he is for whatever reason. He must know how to play the game.

But, no college? Is he where he is because of nepotism? His daddy must have worked at Alaska?

That got him in the door. Has he paid his dues on the line? Or is climbing the company ladder to get an override and avoid juniority?

More power to him. Again, I'm sure he's a perectly good guy.

If that's the case, a good guy with no college is better than a tool with a degree.

His Pa was the 737 Fleet Captain. He got hired and checked out as an IP (with Capt. upgrade) the first year on the property. Oh to be an Arctic Eaglet.

Enjoy that Xmas vacation until you upgrade. After that, kiss it and summer vacations goodbye. You're probably a PDX guy. You'd never hold it in SEA.

SEA based.

Packrat please enlighten us all on your illustrious career. Someone asked where you work and unless I couldn't find it our it was simply hidden, you never answered. Instead you have done nothing but complain, insult and ***** about a company you don't even work at. You even make assumptions about someone's base just because they hold christmas off and guess what, your assumption was wrong. So, please, continue to tell the world everything you know about Alaska Airlines even though you don't work here, or, you could just shut your mouth and talk about something you actually do know about. You're obviously bitter and you're obviously ignorant, please do us all a favor and cease commenting as though you are an exper witness on something you obviously know jack about.

So what's up with future hiring? I'd love to hear some relevant information about future invertview dates and class dates. Thank you in advance.