ecam

I agree that the brainwash sessions in recurrent need to stop. FR, TH, TS, and AK need to stop telling everyone who will listen that Jason was terminated with cause "because of his actions in the investigation". In fact, IMO, everyone needs to stop talking about it and let the case run its course.

If he as Captain felt an evacuation was warranted, it was warranted.

If he stood up to their Monday morning quarterbacking in the investigation, and bullying him to apologize for costing the company money, more power to him.

If he gets enough money to retire comfortably, justice will be served.

And the guys in Standards who are still talking about this need to be removed from management. THEY are the problem with this company and our terrible "training" (checking) culture. It's time to break up that good old boy frat over there at AFG and start acting like an airline our size.

And AQP can't come fast enough. IMO once the 80s are gone, our training department will be the single greatest safety liability at this airline.

captjns

Because many carry that packet of tissues to wipe the brown spots from the tips of their noses.

Slayer1234

I’m pretty familiar with industrial chemicals. I worked In the industry and at one time had CIH next to my name on my resume. Read the MSDS for skydrol. Then if your still interested read the studies that it is based off of. Compared to other chemicals skydrol is benign. That being said due to human variability it can’t be completely ruled out that someone couldn’t be severely hurt by it. The chances of that after an acute 15 minute exposure is very low and I know of no cases of someone dying from it. Then again I won’t go so far as to say it’s impossible. It’s just that the likelihood is a lot less than than that of someone sustaining a severe injury like a compound fracture, broken hip, or even a skull fracture.

Slayer1234

Current training and guidance is to try to identify the source of the smoke, determine intensity and whether or not it’s increasing or decreasing. Yes there is guidance on how to do this in the GOM and what to look for. Of course I do feel we could use more training in the area. However, If you haven’t at least tried to do these things before ordering an evacuation you are violating the GOM. I’m not saying I completely agree with it because if you do have a fire that spreads you are wasting time. Neither scenario is perfect but I’m going to follow the book to CYA.

FreshWater

Imo. That’s current training and it’s still lacking. Big problem for the company is that’s not the way it was. Captain J did exactly what the company trained him to do. At the end of every sim session was the fire warning and the prescribed and demanded expectation to execute the emergency evac without hesitation. It was a timed event and the evac was the only option. Fail to do it and you failed the session. There was never any other course to consider.

This is why we need to get with industry standard training, not checking via aqp. The old school ways of check to check it and do it quick, is why we are where we are today with the impending trial.

Slayer1234

You’re right. I’m referring to current training. I’m not talking about how it was in the past. My intent was not to Monday morning QB captain J. My intent was to stand up for how far we have come as an airline. You guys pointed it out and I retracted that part of it. My original post should have been left at saying we don’t have the whole story yet. I’m done talking about captain J. Hopefully it gets sorted out in the lawsuit. If he was solely terminated for ordering the evacuation then I hope he gets paid a lot of money.

ecam

Exactly. This guy gets it.

The company can't take back years of drilling evacuations into everyone head in jeopardy check rides. The Law of Primacy will always take over in real life.

Our training department (Airbus) is being run by a handful of individuals with very little collective airline experience. Yet they operate at whim, put whatever they want in the syllabus, and change it constantly. Training events at this company (checkrides, not really training) are high stress events where pilots are taught rote level knowledge under threat of losing your job every 6 months. Grading is 100% subjective. Anyone who has been here more than a while knows the line about Allegiant pilots having a 6 month employment contract. No matter how long you have been here, we all face the possibility of being out of work if we pi$s off the wrong high ranking person. The training department is absolutely used as a weapon by management. Now that we have a contract, it's the easiest way for them to fire people.

AQP will fix 99% of this, with its standardized data based syllabus, and objective grading standards. I cannot believe that the FAA hasn't intervened on this as we are now one of the few airlines our size still using the outdated training model. We have addressed the maintenance deficiencies leading to our poor safety record. Now it's time to address the training deficiencies. AQP the sooner the better.

JustWatching

I couldn’t disagree with you more regarding the training department. While the Captain on that evac did exactly what he was trained to do and most certainly got hosed, he got hosed by Captain Leisser and Captain Baden, most likely at the request of MG. The current leadership team in training and standards does an outstanding job trying to fix the turd sandwich they were given. They aren’t perfect, but they’re putting the time and effort into making things right.

The AB fleet manager and training Captain are a completely different story.

Also, until we’re AQP all PC’s are conducted in accordance with Appendix F and are not subjective, which the exception of the CRM box. You either meet the standards set forth in the FOTM or you don’t. Also, no one gets fired from a single failed PC. The contract addresses this.

If you’re afraid for your job every time you come in for a sim event, you’re likely a weak pilot and should better prepare.

crxpilot

+1 very well said

ecam

Nice slam there at the end. I've never failed a PC, and fortunately I don't have many training events left. But you know what i'm talking about. The fear is real out there. Talk to some of the guys who just came of the 80.