Contract negotiations
12-21-2022 | 07:06 AM
#991
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 46
From: A320 CA
The NMB isn't going to release anyone to strike if you haven't already gone through the mediation process. You're showing your inexperience with the issues and management bias.
A strike vote is useless if you are still 2-3 steps away from a strike. That would be as amateurish as the status quo strike vote he took a couple years ago. Shot his wad and got nothing for it since a court predictably slapped him with an injunction the next day.
Andrew's biggest mistake was actually letting the company lead him on for the last year+. He should have filed for mediation the first time they negotiated in bad faith. If he'd done so the allegiant pilots might be in the end game. He couldn't really be that stupid and arrogant to believe this management group was going to actually bargain with him in good faith. That's what makes me think it's intentional, just to stay on the gravy train as long as possible. Kinda like the grievance machine does for him.
But yeah, they need to file for mediation ASAP. It'a a required step in the process to get released. That's the only thing thats going to move the process along. Plan on 1 year from the date you file for mediation to get a deal assuming nobody gets parked. That's pretty standard. Should have been done a long time ago. Ask Andrew why he didn't for so long. Press that question. Major mistake.
A strike vote is useless if you are still 2-3 steps away from a strike. That would be as amateurish as the status quo strike vote he took a couple years ago. Shot his wad and got nothing for it since a court predictably slapped him with an injunction the next day.
Andrew's biggest mistake was actually letting the company lead him on for the last year+. He should have filed for mediation the first time they negotiated in bad faith. If he'd done so the allegiant pilots might be in the end game. He couldn't really be that stupid and arrogant to believe this management group was going to actually bargain with him in good faith. That's what makes me think it's intentional, just to stay on the gravy train as long as possible. Kinda like the grievance machine does for him.
But yeah, they need to file for mediation ASAP. It'a a required step in the process to get released. That's the only thing thats going to move the process along. Plan on 1 year from the date you file for mediation to get a deal assuming nobody gets parked. That's pretty standard. Should have been done a long time ago. Ask Andrew why he didn't for so long. Press that question. Major mistake.
There are still sections that the union has not passed to the company. NMB would laugh at your face if you filed for mediation because of an impasse when the full contract isn’t even on the table. I’m not in the business to defend AR but even I think this take is a little unfair…
12-21-2022 | 07:16 AM
#992
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,671
Likes: 17
AR can’t file for mediation without having passed all of the sections of the contract. You want him to file for NMB mediation before having passed the entire contract?
There are still sections that the union has not passed to the company. NMB would laugh at your face if you filed for mediation because of an impasse when the full contract isn’t even on the table. I’m not in the business to defend AR but even I think this take is a little unfair…
There are still sections that the union has not passed to the company. NMB would laugh at your face if you filed for mediation because of an impasse when the full contract isn’t even on the table. I’m not in the business to defend AR but even I think this take is a little unfair…
What they would laugh in your face about is asking for a release to a 30 day cooling off period when you haven't even gone through mediation yet.
An "Impasse" declaration is the final step before release, not the first step. That impasse is declared by the mediator... unless you don't have one.
12-21-2022 | 07:39 AM
#993
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 20
From: CA
Yes a strike vote now is meaningless but the flying public doesn’t know that; all they see is articles with the word “strike”. At the very least make a big production of activating the SPC.
MG strung us along through the holidays; next step is move the needle just enough to keep the “on-the-fence” crowd hanging on through March.
MG strung us along through the holidays; next step is move the needle just enough to keep the “on-the-fence” crowd hanging on through March.
12-21-2022 | 11:20 AM
#994
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 46
From: A320 CA
That's not true. Either side can file for mediation any time. The Delta boys have said their company filed on day 1 of negotiations back in 2019. As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.
What they would laugh in your face about is asking for a release to a 30 day cooling off period when you haven't even gone through mediation yet.
An "Impasse" declaration is the final step before release, not the first step. That impasse is declared by the mediator... unless you don't have one.
What they would laugh in your face about is asking for a release to a 30 day cooling off period when you haven't even gone through mediation yet.
An "Impasse" declaration is the final step before release, not the first step. That impasse is declared by the mediator... unless you don't have one.
12-22-2022 | 02:17 PM
#995
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Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 46
From: A320 CA
MG finally gets serious about pay
heard from a source that yesterday management finally started getting serious on pay. MG passed rates that were competitive to Alaska's. when asked what "competitive" with Alaska meant I was told: that some years/steps were higher and others were lower.
not trying to get hopes up, just sharing what i am hearing (Marg i will be sorely disappointed if you don't chime in and accuse me of being a management tool, who is guilty of ruining pilots' lives by stringing them along).
scheduling/work rules were not talked about at all this week. imo that means there is still a grand canyon separating management and the union on scheduling, work rules, etc.
Apparently management told the union that they want to make another offer on all the scheduling sections the first week of january.
not trying to get hopes up, just sharing what i am hearing (Marg i will be sorely disappointed if you don't chime in and accuse me of being a management tool, who is guilty of ruining pilots' lives by stringing them along).
scheduling/work rules were not talked about at all this week. imo that means there is still a grand canyon separating management and the union on scheduling, work rules, etc.
Apparently management told the union that they want to make another offer on all the scheduling sections the first week of january.
12-22-2022 | 02:57 PM
#996
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 20
From: CA
LOL not even Alaska pilots are happy with the new & quickly obsolete Alaska rates…
But that aside, I agree the work rules have always been, and will be, the real sticking point. The long laundry list of much needed industry standard work rules are going to run smack dab into management need to keep it “special”, “different”, and “flexible”. Industry standard scheduling, reserve, and hours of service sections means the end of Allegiant being Allegiant. I don’t see this being resolved anytime soon and not outside of mediation & all it entails up to incl. self-help.
But that aside, I agree the work rules have always been, and will be, the real sticking point. The long laundry list of much needed industry standard work rules are going to run smack dab into management need to keep it “special”, “different”, and “flexible”. Industry standard scheduling, reserve, and hours of service sections means the end of Allegiant being Allegiant. I don’t see this being resolved anytime soon and not outside of mediation & all it entails up to incl. self-help.
12-22-2022 | 03:06 PM
#997
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 46
From: A320 CA
LOL not even Alaska pilots are happy with the new & quickly obsolete Alaska rates…
But that aside, I agree the work rules have always been, and will be, the real sticking point. The long laundry list of much needed industry standard work rules are going to run smack dab into management need to keep it “special”, “different”, and “flexible”. Industry standard scheduling, reserve, and hours of service sections means the end of Allegiant being Allegiant. I don’t see this being resolved anytime soon and not outside of mediation & all it entails up to incl. self-help.
But that aside, I agree the work rules have always been, and will be, the real sticking point. The long laundry list of much needed industry standard work rules are going to run smack dab into management need to keep it “special”, “different”, and “flexible”. Industry standard scheduling, reserve, and hours of service sections means the end of Allegiant being Allegiant. I don’t see this being resolved anytime soon and not outside of mediation & all it entails up to incl. self-help.
i forget who mentioned it, but one thing i will be looking for in the contract are some assurances that we do NOT change the scheduling model to be industry standard - aka keep it exclusively day trips. That is way more important to me and the pilots i talk with than any other scheduling practice/work rule. If you are not here for the day trips and home every night then why in the world are you here??? there is literally nothing else this place has to offer...
12-22-2022 | 03:16 PM
#998
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 20
From: CA
If you’re letting thousands of pilots get hired ahead of you while you idly hang on here for some illusory promise of day trips in perpetuity….good luck. MG will be more than happy to sell you a bag of fools gold.
12-22-2022 | 03:27 PM
#999
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
heard from a source that yesterday management finally started getting serious on pay. MG passed rates that were competitive to Alaska's. when asked what "competitive" with Alaska meant I was told: that some years/steps were higher and others were lower.
not trying to get hopes up, just sharing what i am hearing (Marg i will be sorely disappointed if you don't chime in and accuse me of being a management tool, who is guilty of ruining pilots' lives by stringing them along).
scheduling/work rules were not talked about at all this week. imo that means there is still a grand canyon separating management and the union on scheduling, work rules, etc.
Apparently management told the union that they want to make another offer on all the scheduling sections the first week of january.
not trying to get hopes up, just sharing what i am hearing (Marg i will be sorely disappointed if you don't chime in and accuse me of being a management tool, who is guilty of ruining pilots' lives by stringing them along).
scheduling/work rules were not talked about at all this week. imo that means there is still a grand canyon separating management and the union on scheduling, work rules, etc.
Apparently management told the union that they want to make another offer on all the scheduling sections the first week of january.
12-22-2022 | 04:12 PM
#1000
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 46
From: A320 CA
So why are you here if not for the day trips? Seriously, what other reasons are out there to stay/come here but for the day trips/home every night model? I honestly can’t think of any other reason why one would choose this place over all other options that are out there?
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