Originally Posted by tom11011

That’s not all he said.

Originally Posted by captnate702

And then he said something about unstacking which still seems like his favorite pet project.

Originally Posted by Captainbfv

And this is what's gonna cost us everything.

Originally Posted by captnate702

okay tom, then tell me what I missed?

If Andrew's strategy to getting a contract is telling the mediators and management that AA, UA, AA, B6 and AS are our peers then he is more naive than even i thought...

Originally Posted by captnate702

A question I keep asking myself and others is what does “industry standard” contract mean?

1. Is it a legacy standard contract where we only compare ourselves to larger more established airlines like AS, B6, DL, AA, UA, WN?

2. Does industry standard mean where we sit in the industry compared to our peers? Think NK, F9, SC, Avelo and Breeze?

I can assure you that “industry standard” does not mean a “legacy standard” contract to management. I am certain that management thinks we are way closer to tiny Avelo than to the big four.

For example, if we get a TA that “industry leading” for ULCC airlines but short of a legacy standard contract - how does that workout?

If the hope is that we will get a legacy standard contract then I think we will be in mediation for a decade.

Remember, the mediator we have was management at F9 and NK for a long time, I don’t think she’s gonna be impressed when Andrew says we should be released because management won’t match delta rates.

Originally Posted by Bitcoin

Should be an average of all of the above airlines you mentioned except Breeze and Avelo. It's not resonable to compare with non unionized airlines that have never negotiated anything in the past and only have company work rules. The contract comparisons from the union include Sun Country and Frontier which have expired contracts or close to it so some items are outdated. I don't think the company or union is out of touch with where the industry has recently moved to or what is a fair blend of airlines to dictate what's standard. The other contracts in the industry have taken 3-4 years from expiration to negotiate except the contract extentions (UPS and NK). I think you will see a TA pretty close to the 3 year mark which will be this fall, give or take a few months.

Originally Posted by captnate702

this makes sense to me. I agree that management knows what it’s gonna take to get a TA voted in. I thought that when management did the retention bonus that they would pretend that was enough of a raise. Surprisingly they haven’t done that so I think you’re they probably do have an understanding of the big items: compensation, LTD, retirement.

where MG will die before he moves towards “industry standard” is in work rules that compromise his precious flexibility and “variable schedule”. This is where I think we will spend 2-3 years in negotiation. Andrew has made it clear he wants “industry standard” work rules aka scheduling rules. (December 2022 he said he wanted industry leading work rules with a 0% unstack but he seems to have come off of that).

Andrew also will roll over in his grave before he allows us to vote on a TA that does not have his scheduling rules (aka unstacking).

Originally Posted by Bitcoin

They have said they will agree to what the industry has or even below standard with no staffing model or unstacking. The standard unstack/staffing model would require the company to hire quite a bit more but deleting any staffing model with no unstack would allow the company to continue to run lean. The company has to be ecstatic with that since their end goal is acheived. I don't think section 15 will be to difficult to TA, but I can't say the same about some of the work rules as you mention, the min day for example won't be easy.

Originally Posted by tom11011

You need to listen to it again.

Originally Posted by PilotPoster

Is this something that can be linked to? Would like to take a listen.