Min calendar day
 

Anyone hearing anything new about securing min calendar day?

I heard from a closed AA group that it isn't happening this year.

I saw that. They are saying it's LOS or calendar day.

Calendar day helps everyone. This should be a no brainer.

You want to know how you to turn a pilot group against each other so that their differing objectives prevent them from banding together for a cause? This is a textbook example of how to do it.

Unless you were affected by LOS. For those guys, min calendar day is a pennies-on-the-dollar compromise. And AA knows that.

I'm sorry for those dudes, but min calendar day helps everyone. It also helps with recruiting and retention. Our contract is trash. Fixing LOS does nothing for the greater pilot group right now.

Where do you guys get these "textbooks"? Many people quote some textbook somewhere but I've never seen this all giving book in the flesh. Can you order it on Amazon? Maybe it's that infamous all knowing "guy in the jumpseat" that is the keeper of the book. I still
havent had that guy in my jumpseat yet.

^

That's exactly why APA will settle on LOS!

Min calendar day
 

Calendar day would be huge. I feel for the furloughees but calendar day helps everyone.

Side note. Didn't a lot of the furloughees bypass recall for a while? So the guys who are on 3rd or 4th year pay could have come back a while ago and been on a much higher longevity pay?

If it's one or the other it should obviously be calendar day. But I don't fly slash trip so whatevs.

Min calendar day would be a 30% to 50% raise for the guys stuck with slash trips. Some guys are currently working 18 days a month for 78 hours.

APA had a chance to fix a whole lot of stuff.

Unfortunately, they took that chance to get rid of better work rules and credits in both the east and west contracts. They quite literally took a good look at both contracts-and took all the good stuff out.

The union spends more time hosing its own pilots than anything else. This JCBA is incredible. Worse work rules than even the crappiest regionals-and we paid people to negotiate the damn thing for us.

If given the chance I'd vote the damn union out. Mgmt can hose us for free.

APA is a dues collection organization. That's all they do for us.

Envoy gives hotel rooms to its commuters 4 times per month. Our own regional treats its pilots better.

Let that sink in.

PSA commuters also get up to $250 a month in hotel reimbursements. They also have a Schedule Adjustment Period (SAP) that allows line holders to drop up to 65 hours of trips and essentially rebuild their schedule from available trips. Those are both incredible QOL issues that AAG's wholly owned regional gets.

Meanwhile, the senior ladder pullers on CnR say, "Commuting is a choice. Suck it up."

The truly amazing part is:

APA turned the most leverage in major airline history into the worst work rules since the DC3s went away.

LOL....no, no they don't treat us any better, I assure you. Every envoy flow-through I've talked to has said the worst day at AA is still better than what they put up with here. The latest comm from our MEC spells out some of the issues, from pilot pushing to making FMLA as hard as possible to get. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Lots of flow-throughs have told me they feel treated like adults over there in comparison.

Browsing LA schedules I saw one with 10 days off and 6 slash trips. He wasn't super junior either.

Not me.
Yes, in general things are better but the worst day at AA is far worse than my worst days at Eagle. Never once did I fly 6 hours all night nor be stuck with 10 days and can't get home. The best schedules are however far better than Eagle. Eagle really wasn't that bad back before the schedules went downhill... It was really the pay that was the issue.

Reserve is far better tho.

LUS didn't even have a line guarantee and combined with A320 CAs making $125/hr $85/hr FOs topped out, I'll take the current AA contract every single time. Guys must have some serious selective memory or they never flew under the LUS contract as a block holder to know just how bad it was. Reserve was great as we had a ton of them but we made $50k/yr on an Airbus. Spirit guys made way more than us.

I would like LOS to be implemented but if you deferred it goes to only the time you elected to come back. Anyone who came back right away should get full LOS. IMO. Min day will just mean the junior guys are going to be doing red eyes imbedded in regular trips, they're not going away but I would like an override for them. They are brutal.

Envoys payscale also tops out at 106/hr with a minor 401k match while AA is 323/hr with 16% DC.

I know our contract needs work but comparing it to envoy or any other regional is laughable.

Should have kept LUS work rules with new pay. 2020 will get us back to LUS work rules... maybe.

It's laughable that you brought up their pay scale. There should be NO comparison and NOTHING in our own regional's contract that's better than ours. Not a single thing.

Contract 2020:

1) 5:30 Min Calendar Day
2) Full LOS
3) LTD fix up to industry standard
4) Industry leading Profit Sharing
5) Industry leading hotel language
6) DL/UA/FDX/UPS + 1% for pay

I'd say that would be a pretty good start!

Are the commuter hotels in their contract? I was under the impression they are an added recruiting tool just like the bonuses and thus easily taken away if staffing is no longer an issue.


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There is more to a contract than just pay rates.
Most regionals now have credit for each day of reserve scheduled. So if you fly an 8 hour day you will break guarantee. Once you get to your 76 hours. You have a choice to either take the rest of the month off or make extra money.
Why should we be tied to our phones, not be able to have a beer or be within 2 hours of the airport for free? Each day needs to be viewed as a single day. Not grouped into a month.

Some bypassed for longer than that.

That was the east contract. The west contract was far better and had some industry leading parts like short term disability that did not rely on a bank of hours, paid 66% of your pay, and reset when you came back to work. Long term disability was 60% of your pay up to social security age with zero income offset. Add in 5+15 for each 24 hour sit in a hotel (called the long rate) trip ownership, no tagging lineholders and a bunch of other items that were ignored because we were just "west rookies".

APA has been a detriment to the AA pilots for decades. But abused children just don't know any better. Hopefully all the new blood here will change things around. I'd be happier with ALPA in.

Don't forget about something better than A3 deadhead priority to get you back home after recurrent training or a broken trip!

I don't know that ALPA would be any better. If the same idiots get elected, we would wind up paying twice the dues for the same crappy product.

Perhaps some structural issues would be worth it. I don't think ALPA allows the kind of games with voting that makes APA so awful. The MIA and DFW reps have so much voting power that no other base has any effective representation.

I think retirements should help. In a few years, many of the bad guys will retire-and the landscape should be much better.

If we could fix the voting system, we would have the makings of a good union (or at least a far less awful one.)

Absolutely! Good catch.

While not the biggest aLPA cheerleader it sure makes sense when you’re negotiating to just hand over the Delta/Other ALPA carrier contracts and say ‘me too’. Oh, and for the love of god, stop voting in the same d!cks.

Not just me too, but me too plus X %. It's disrespectful to the other airlines not to even try and raise the bar.

The good part is ALPA F&A was hired to cost our next contract. If the DFW brain trust listens in a whole different story.

Hotels were an LOA. They are in the contract. Any signing bonus or retention bonus was outside of the contract and/or LOA.

Yes hotels were an LOA but with the caveat that they can be cancelled by the company with notice. Either 60 or 90 days I don't remember exactly.


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I doubt they will.

Those dickballs spend at least 90% of their time screwing people who pay dues.

They quite literally and purposefully hose various groups of our pilots. I guess the guys who the Bad Seeds represent must love that-because they damn sure elect the same bastards,

In that same fashion, how many domiciles had their base reps run unopposed...AGAIN?

And.. I'll be voting a big fat NO first round no matter what it is.

No matter what? Even if we get everything and more?

Why?

We at envoy spent the last decade that I've been here (so I'm sure for even longer) being F-ed by ALPA national.

They would rather hide MEC members abusing their fiduciary duty instead of fix the problem.

When I pointedly asked the ALPA president that signed the concessionary PSA whipsaw contract that undercut us and stole our CRJ's how in the hell he could justify allowing one ALPA carrier to directly undermine another, his answer was "because it was a contract improvement for them."

Voting in ALPA would be a serious, serious mistake. As much as APA may be screwed up, at least their primary responsibilities are to AA pilots and no one else. I wish we were that lucky.