We're All In It Together
10-20-2019 | 02:50 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Likes: 0
Everyone should be entitled to their opinion, even if it's not supported by the facts.
As for me, I'm not even on property yet, but should be before the end of next year. I'll be a flow, and grateful everyday, but have seen enough of unions close up to know that they need regular monitoring and flushing. Kinda like Congress, but I digress...…
There will be a whole host of pilots that got to live first hand what the lack of unity, in particular around scope, has done across the profession, and enough scarcity in the pilot labor market to support retaking some of those losses. Heck, DAL is already doing it. And hopefully there's been enough consolidation across the entire industry that the great fights like APA/TWA or USA/AWA will be a thing of the past. We'll see.
What I know of the ALPA / USAPA / AOL saga seems to suggest that had cooler heads prevailed in the wake of the Nicolau award that there existed the possibility for contractual gains prior to the recession, but hindsight is 20/20 and all that. By the time I get there I'll have 30+ years to figure it out, and a pretty rapid rise up the list if it all works out. We'll see.
As for me, I'm not even on property yet, but should be before the end of next year. I'll be a flow, and grateful everyday, but have seen enough of unions close up to know that they need regular monitoring and flushing. Kinda like Congress, but I digress...…
There will be a whole host of pilots that got to live first hand what the lack of unity, in particular around scope, has done across the profession, and enough scarcity in the pilot labor market to support retaking some of those losses. Heck, DAL is already doing it. And hopefully there's been enough consolidation across the entire industry that the great fights like APA/TWA or USA/AWA will be a thing of the past. We'll see.
What I know of the ALPA / USAPA / AOL saga seems to suggest that had cooler heads prevailed in the wake of the Nicolau award that there existed the possibility for contractual gains prior to the recession, but hindsight is 20/20 and all that. By the time I get there I'll have 30+ years to figure it out, and a pretty rapid rise up the list if it all works out. We'll see.
10-20-2019 | 08:44 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: CRJ, A320
The point is the majority of the industry sakes their head at how stupid financially your "Unity" movement cost you. We all saw it but you never will. It's less then 50% of the East short timers I fly with think it was worth it. Most are trying to line up a job after retirement or hoping for age 67. It's sad really...but at least they can hold their head high with you when greeting folks at Walmart.
10-20-2019 | 09:56 AM
#34
Line holder
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,167
Likes: 226
From: Aircraft & Seat: old & hard
First, this thread is about a video that shows a man and his family living under a crappy contract for the most junior pilots...except for the money and the PROMISE of some yet to be established future. USAPA was a legitimately established union under the NMB. ALPA National was the one imposing a process that did not serve the interest of the principle of unions...SENIORITY = LENGTH OF SERVICE. The point here is simple: the guy in the video and his future brethren will pay the price. Arbitration has NO principles....PERIOD. The law of arbitration serves ONE MASTER....the Company. In fact the APA negotiated away the grievance process with last years Furlough LOS clawback....NO? And what precedent does that set? Look, I’m not going to change a West guys mind and your not going to change mine. I want that guy in the video know that he is losing his family life because of the past and the APA/AWA mindset of LOS has no meaning. USAPA tried to fix it. The next merger I won’t be here but if anyone reads this thread they’ll know I memorialized and warning them....albeit too late for their benefit.
Enjoy YOUR I’ll gotten gains.
Enjoy YOUR I’ll gotten gains.
10-20-2019 | 01:08 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,248
Likes: 0
From: 767A (Ret)
Mod warning
Feel free to discuss how your Company and Union should move forward, but we won’t allow you to re-fight an old war here.
10-20-2019 | 04:46 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Likes: 0
So the contract expires shortly, the guy in the tape is on short call and getting his a$$ kicked by the old contract (part of the “old war”) and the APA doesn’t get what it wants. The mechanics are without a contract for over three years.
What now?
10-20-2019 | 04:54 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Likes: 0
The point is the majority of the industry sakes their head at how stupid financially your "Unity" movement cost you. We all saw it but you never will. It's less then 50% of the East short timers I fly with think it was worth it. Most are trying to line up a job after retirement or hoping for age 67. It's sad really...but at least they can hold their head high with you when greeting folks at Walmart.
Now, how about that guy and his family in the video?
10-20-2019 | 05:44 PM
#39
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 422
Likes: 14
Huh? That’s about the most cryptic response I’ve ever heard. You have zero clue what I’ve or anyone else has been through. And USAPA caused a lot of the negatives in many careers.
Bottom line, USAPA was bad for the industry, and WAS A UNION THAT BUSTED A UNION AND UNIONS AS A WHOLE. It forces down wages in the darkest time and gave other unions literally no bargaining power. USAPA gave all the power to the company, and did it by just having the numbers alone. I’ll ask you this.....would USAPA ever existed without just having more pilots to vote out ALPA? Would the Nic award not have happened without those numbers? The answer is NO. LUS pilots had the convenience of numbers. Had they not, this whole industry, and that whole dark time for labor unions bargaining power would have never happened. It did, and that is that. But don’t think it was cause it was honorable, it was just a numbers game that the eventual USAPA played. Good move, but not honorable by any means.
Bottom line, USAPA was bad for the industry, and WAS A UNION THAT BUSTED A UNION AND UNIONS AS A WHOLE. It forces down wages in the darkest time and gave other unions literally no bargaining power. USAPA gave all the power to the company, and did it by just having the numbers alone. I’ll ask you this.....would USAPA ever existed without just having more pilots to vote out ALPA? Would the Nic award not have happened without those numbers? The answer is NO. LUS pilots had the convenience of numbers. Had they not, this whole industry, and that whole dark time for labor unions bargaining power would have never happened. It did, and that is that. But don’t think it was cause it was honorable, it was just a numbers game that the eventual USAPA played. Good move, but not honorable by any means.
Last edited by drinksonme; 10-20-2019 at 06:01 PM.
10-20-2019 | 05:45 PM
#40
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
I have quite a few years left and with my seniority, assuming Armageddon doesn’t occur, I’ll finish up nicely. I hope you can do the same. There isn’t that many of the East short timers left so I can only say our future value is now measured in days, not years. I won’t be greeting folks at Walmart, nice dig though. I’ll be watching you guys slugging it out with each other like the mechanics have for years.
Now, how about that guy and his family in the video?
Now, how about that guy and his family in the video?
