AA Early Retirement Offer
 

Can an AA pilot please spell out the details of the early retirement package, specifically:

1) Age limit
2) Credit Hrs per month paid
3) 401K Contribution included?
4) Health Benefits?
5) Travel benefits
6) Sick leave balance paid out?
7) Monthly payout or is there a lump sum option

Thanks!

1. 62-64
2. 50
3. Yes, full 16%
4. Yes, full
5. Yes, including jumpseat on AA only tho
6. 40% upon reaching 65 into HSA
7. None

Thanks for the info. Not a fun question to ask but again this is corporate America so buyer beware: In the event AA declares bankruptcy can they just trash those obligations like airlines did with their defined pension plans and the early retirees get the shaft?

Absolutely! To my knowledge this is not any sort of formal retirement plan which would even be covered a little by PBGC.

It's a win/win for AA. If everything works out, they save some cash now, and the payments won't hurt too much after the recovery.

If it doesn't work out, looks like unsecured creditors to me. Worst case for AA, judge makes them recall the old guys (to a gutted contract) and then furlough juniors.

That said, I'd take the deal and take the chance (I don't have any alimony though).

It really is a nice deal, any idea why nobody else is offering one?


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why would anybody not take this. it seems pretty good. kudos to AA, seems like they are the only major with such an attractive early retirement package.

as long as those pilots keep getting paid during and after bankruptcy it’s a killer deal. If they get put back to work in the event of bankruptcy it is also a killer deal.

if they get cut lose with zero pay during a bankruptcy it is a terrible deal. Language in the event of a bankruptcy better be beyond solid.

Almost 800 pilots were willing to take that bet, and likely more to come.

I wonder how many furloughs UAL could potentially save if UALPA and UAL negotiated the same early retirement as APA and AA.

zero because none of us believe the company won’t screw us in bankruptcy.....remember pensions? United pilots sold the farm in 2003 to save the pensions that the company stripped away in bankruptcy anyway.

All of Uniteds 60+ Aged pilots know better.

Greed!!! I saw a guy I’d flown international with several times who had about 9 months left and I asked him what the hell he was still doing here? He looked at me like I had three heads and said “not for that little money!!”

These pilots are still on the seniority list and are not officially retired until.....well.....their retirement date at age 65.

I think if this deal gets wiped out they could just come back and fly the line assuming they have a medical. Speculation only.

so then it’s not an early out retirement offer?

It’s a trap.

“our ignorance is not so vast, as our failure to use what we know.”

No it’s early out they can’t be called back and they can’t come back. They don’t exit the seniority list so I guess the assumption is by many that if a BK judge tossed the deal they could come back and fly. That said a lot of the guys had one to two years left when they took and I guess they figured by the time they get to that item in bankruptcy they be pretty much out the door before it got wiped out.

No one seems to be able to answer that question with all the correct information everyone wants to know .

sooooo... just like everything else?

somebody with 9 months left can probably work the system for way better than 55 hours

where on earth did you get this info from? They are 100% off the list and cannot return. EF was asked about this. His answer was, this deal is part of the CBA now. If they want to change it, it would require changing the CBA.

My explanation was what a lot of people have thought would be the outcome if this got tossed in BK court. I tend to agree with you but BK can be screwy.

No one has yet answered my simple question....in the event AA declares bankruptcy do the obligations for paying these early retirees become like most other obligations, ie. unsecured creditors and they go to the back of the line to get paid, if ever.

With AA debt load that would be a huge factor for me. It is also why I asked the question about the option to take it as a lump sum. Take the lump sum $ and run and don't look back if I was 62+

they are pilots without eligibility to fly or return to flying, and with no obligation to the company to show up to work. not retirees. They are on a voluntary permanent leave of absense. So they will be paid in the same manner that all the other pilots are paid. They will also not be furloughed. No, there is no lump sum.

its been answered multiple times.

no one really knows and there hasn’t been an official answer from the company or the union. I’ll say again because I guess you missed it. The pilots are still on the seniority list. If the contract is thrown out in bankruptcy this agreement goes with it. Since they are on the list hopefully they’d be able to return.

You aren’t going to get a definitive answer because there isn’t one at this point.

APA just published a list last week. The VPLOAs are all on it.............

They can’t return status quo. This question was about BK where the contract would more than likely be changed.

lump sum requires cash on hand, which we don’t have.

Believe it or not, there are a group of pilots here who.. quote "would work until age 70 if they let me"

Who knows why. Combination of horrible money management, too many ex wives, hating their current wife and not wanting to be home, etc...

You forgot the other one (usually down south). Man, I miss my former crew base MIA.

So, I wonder if all the 63 up pilots that are getting displaced off the 767/ 330 back to a narrow body will go ahead and take the early out. I’d like to think many would.

This could really give the VPLOA numbers a real boost on this round. And they should be out and posted before the Displacement.

At NetJets there are pilots pushing 80, although I think they're all out on medical. Owners have complained and NJA has looked for a way to ease those guys out but can't get around age discrimination laws. That's why they tried to get it snuck into legislation a few years ago. Law was written so it'd only apply to NetJets. Never did get included in the final bill thou.

I went out on medical at 60 and I am fine with staying out, I have LOM coverage thru age 68.

Why couldn’t NJ say “airlines have age 65, so do we.”

Age discrimination laws.

I also wonder this:

If a current 330/ 767 Pilot takes VPLOA, will he get the 50 hours at group III/ IV pay or at whatever group rate he would be displaced to? This might make a huge difference in who takes the early retirement.

they get paid what they are currently on if awarded the VPLOA BEFORE the vacancy/displacement comes out....if they take the VPLOA after the vacancy they will transition to whatever they are awarded on the effective date of their award...someone correct me if i am wrong but thats how i understand it.

I think you are probably right but isn’t this a September award? So they will have a limited time to take the money and run? However the company did not offer as many early outs this month so it is possible that they see our staffing getting to be where it needs to be.

When do the vacancy result come out anyways?

We are guessing mid june

Preliminary award scheduled to be out on June 11.

thry will "make money" as long as they get the VPLOA award before they post the vacancy results..ex. if awarded VPLOA June 5th, and then displaced from 330/CA to 320/CA on June 11th via sept vacancy, they will stay at 330/CA pay for the duration of their VPLOA time.

You taking the over or under on it lol.