FlyyGuyy

100% correct.

AllYourBaseAreB

Didn’t almost 800 guys retire early? Wouldn’t call that nothing. The United proposal ain’t a done deal and appears to be a very slippery slope

daOldMan

I am embarrassed by the BOD and NC APA. They should be working right up to the last minute trying to mitigate every furlough that they can. Instead, they have given up and are doing nothing. We will end up furloughing more than any other airline, even though we should be furloughing the least.

The BOD and NC are possibly working on covering the health insurance of those that are furloughed (like everyone else is doing), but this should be the absolute minimum. Covering the health insurance should be a given.

If you think for a minute that the arbitrators during a bankruptcy will take less because we didn't have temporary concessions that mitigated furloughs, you are an idiot. They will look at the industry as a whole, including the history of every bankruptcy in the past, and start from there. Temporary concessions are a necessary evil at this point, and by not taking them, the pilots at AA are not only destroying the lives of the bottom 1500 pilots, but that of their own future.

AAL24

Do you guys/gals really want the United proposal? It’s a 20-70% pay cut until we are back to 2019 levels. Currently they are forecasting traffic to not reach pre Covid levels until 2024. What if United remains a smaller airline for 10 years? Then Kirby has 60% of the pilot group working for 50 hours or less for a decade.

furlough sucks. I’ve been furloughed multiple times. It’s awful. But don’t you want to return to a good job?

daOldMan

Have you really been fooled into thinking that bankruptcy contracts will be worse because of these temporary concessions? Try again. That idea is so ridiculous I am astonished anyone believes it. They will cut to the bone, no matter how much fat there is before hand.

The job of a union should be to protect EVERY job on the seniority list.

daOldMan

You really have no idea how UAL's program is set up, and it shows. Besides having an absolute end date, they can not just keep the airline smaller on purpose for 10 years.

Wouldn't it be better to not furlough any of the young guys, and still have a good airline? Isn't that the point?

People like you that talk about your past furloughs have learned nothing.

If one pilot is furloughed, APA has failed. Period.

AAL24

Do you think that 13,000 pilots should take a significant 3+ year paycut to save 1,600 temporary furloughs? Furloughs have been an unfortunate reality in aviation for decades.

ACEssXfer

It’s 10-50%. I think the issue is self correcting. The company doesn’t want pilots being that inefficient. If they DO want pilots at that level then those pilots probably would be furloughed if not for the deal.

AAL24

where is my lack of understanding? The top 1/3rd will make 70 hours, middle third 50 hours and bottom third 30 hours. Those are huge cuts. There is no “absolute end date.” The snap back is tied to 2019 revenue numbers. What if it takes United 5 years to reach 2019 levels? What about 10 years? Nobody knows when business travel will recover to pre-Covid levels.

daOldMan

First of all, it isn't a pay cut. It is a work cut. Cutting ALV's. (it's not really that complex, not sure how you can't figure this out)

More people get more time off. Simple. Most pilots would welcome this temporarily. I will gladly take an ALV cut and enjoy my 20 days off each month.

And yes...we have had terrible unions in the past and terrible leadership. But just because "that's the way we have always done it", doesnt make it right.

One person is as important as the next. Simple. That is the way that systems work. Would your God be ok with you sacrificing some so that others may live lavishly?

Even one furlough is disgusting, and anyone that is ok with people getting furloughed while they still make the same money is disgusting.