Ed Sicher or Rob Baker?
05-16-2022, 11:35 AM
#21
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 12
“Here is a simple test – call your domicile representatives and ask them who they believe will best represent your interests”
- Rob Baker
Is this guy for real??? We should call the board, who most of us do not support, and ask them who we should vote for?? We aren’t allowed to think for ourselves?
“Find out which candidate AA management would prefer and vote for the opposite guy.” So ask yourself this - would AA prefer the candidate who has a proven track record of calling management out on their BS with regular, clear and concise communication to the DFW base (Baker)”
-Also Rob Baker
So management violates our contract (which they do daily) and his communication is clear and concise with members? Why not communicate and send a message to management that we aren’t doing it? Stop with the fly it then grieve it mentality… that’s his communication with the members. Then they negotiate away our grievances for pennies
- Rob Baker
Is this guy for real??? We should call the board, who most of us do not support, and ask them who we should vote for?? We aren’t allowed to think for ourselves?
“Find out which candidate AA management would prefer and vote for the opposite guy.” So ask yourself this - would AA prefer the candidate who has a proven track record of calling management out on their BS with regular, clear and concise communication to the DFW base (Baker)”
-Also Rob Baker
So management violates our contract (which they do daily) and his communication is clear and concise with members? Why not communicate and send a message to management that we aren’t doing it? Stop with the fly it then grieve it mentality… that’s his communication with the members. Then they negotiate away our grievances for pennies
05-19-2022, 08:06 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,843
Chairmen or Presidents really don't make much of a difference. They're a titular head, and hold no real authority to do anything, other than maybe send out letters to the pilots, stir the pot, run the office or make some phone calls. If they don't have a solid backing from the board, it will be another few years of rudderless drifting. Unless and until the board gets a solid majority as to direction, and that direction is aligned with with the officers, the infighting, squabbling and/or circling the wagons around the good deals will never change.
The key is the reps that sit on the board. They set direction to the negotiators, make the calls, direct the committees & officers. To really change your direction, and I mean really change it, and not have it devolve into a squabbling match between the "old guard" vs the "young turks", you need to get a super-majority of reps on the board all pulling in generally the same direction. To make that change requires a dedicated, long term effort (3 years at least) of constant pressure, activism and election cycles. Few groups of people (and this would take a large group) these days can maintain that level of motivation.
Changing out the just top person yields practically no measurable, real results, and you shouldn't expect any. Very few people really understand that the "top officer" really doesn't do anything. They can apply a limited amount of english on the ball, but that's about it.
The key is the reps that sit on the board. They set direction to the negotiators, make the calls, direct the committees & officers. To really change your direction, and I mean really change it, and not have it devolve into a squabbling match between the "old guard" vs the "young turks", you need to get a super-majority of reps on the board all pulling in generally the same direction. To make that change requires a dedicated, long term effort (3 years at least) of constant pressure, activism and election cycles. Few groups of people (and this would take a large group) these days can maintain that level of motivation.
Changing out the just top person yields practically no measurable, real results, and you shouldn't expect any. Very few people really understand that the "top officer" really doesn't do anything. They can apply a limited amount of english on the ball, but that's about it.
05-19-2022, 08:32 PM
#23
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by NuGuy
Chairmen or Presidents really don't make much of a difference. They're a titular head, and hold no real authority to do anything, other than maybe send out letters to the pilots, stir the pot, run the office or make some phone calls. If they don't have a solid backing from the board, it will be another few years of rudderless drifting. Unless and until the board gets a solid majority as to direction, and that direction is aligned with with the officers, the infighting, squabbling and/or circling the wagons around the good deals will never change.
The key is the reps that sit on the board. They set direction to the negotiators, make the calls, direct the committees & officers. To really change your direction, and I mean really change it, and not have it devolve into a squabbling match between the "old guard" vs the "young turks", you need to get a super-majority of reps on the board all pulling in generally the same direction. To make that change requires a dedicated, long term effort (3 years at least) of constant pressure, activism and election cycles. Few groups of people (and this would take a large group) these days can maintain that level of motivation.
Changing out the just top person yields practically no measurable, real results, and you shouldn't expect any. Very few people really understand that the "top officer" really doesn't do anything. They can apply a limited amount of english on the ball, but that's about it.
The key is the reps that sit on the board. They set direction to the negotiators, make the calls, direct the committees & officers. To really change your direction, and I mean really change it, and not have it devolve into a squabbling match between the "old guard" vs the "young turks", you need to get a super-majority of reps on the board all pulling in generally the same direction. To make that change requires a dedicated, long term effort (3 years at least) of constant pressure, activism and election cycles. Few groups of people (and this would take a large group) these days can maintain that level of motivation.
Changing out the just top person yields practically no measurable, real results, and you shouldn't expect any. Very few people really understand that the "top officer" really doesn't do anything. They can apply a limited amount of english on the ball, but that's about it.
05-20-2022, 05:46 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,843
Originally Posted by MEFLIGHT
It's a leadership position. A good leader will swing the board his way, good or bad. We all have ideas, but leadership takes skills. Hopefully the next APA president have good leadership skill along with good ideas.
If you have reasonable alignment of goals with the president/chairman and a majority of the board, then yes, the president can act as a facilitator and put some english on the ball with the Company. Those situations work out pretty well and they can be effective. If there is no alignment, or his/her faction does not have a majority, or if there is more than two factions on the board pulling in different direction, then there is zero the president can do but look nice for the cameras, not say anything stupid to the press and try to run the office and committees in a half-way efficient fashion.
The giant flaw in most people's thinking is that they see the president/chairman as some kind of authority figure, captain of the ship, charging up a hill who's brilliance and zeal will lead to salvation. That's just not the way it works.
05-20-2022, 06:58 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,302
Originally Posted by NuGuy
I would disagree. I would say it's less than a leadership position, but more than figurehead. Ask 10 pilots to explain what the officers and Reps actually do, and you'll get 10 different answers that are misconceptions and maybe 1 pilot who bothered to read the bylaws and pays attention who "gets it". When you explain how it really does work, then you get a "well, I don't pay attention, that's what I pay my dues for".
If you have reasonable alignment of goals with the president/chairman and a majority of the board, then yes, the president can act as a facilitator and put some english on the ball with the Company. Those situations work out pretty well and they can be effective. If there is no alignment, or his/her faction does not have a majority, or if there is more than two factions on the board pulling in different direction, then there is zero the president can do but look nice for the cameras, not say anything stupid to the press and try to run the office and committees in a half-way efficient fashion.
The giant flaw in most people's thinking is that they see the president/chairman as some kind of authority figure, captain of the ship, charging up a hill who's brilliance and zeal will lead to salvation. That's just not the way it works.
If you have reasonable alignment of goals with the president/chairman and a majority of the board, then yes, the president can act as a facilitator and put some english on the ball with the Company. Those situations work out pretty well and they can be effective. If there is no alignment, or his/her faction does not have a majority, or if there is more than two factions on the board pulling in different direction, then there is zero the president can do but look nice for the cameras, not say anything stupid to the press and try to run the office and committees in a half-way efficient fashion.
The giant flaw in most people's thinking is that they see the president/chairman as some kind of authority figure, captain of the ship, charging up a hill who's brilliance and zeal will lead to salvation. That's just not the way it works.
05-20-2022, 07:54 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,843
Originally Posted by FlyyGuyy
Because it's a garage league organization.
Its tough. It takes a lot of work, motivation, organization, coordination, consistent messaging/outreach and plain old elbow grease. It also takes time, because of the way election cycles work.
Historically, people can’t maintain focus for that long. They get squirreled away, have to run their side business, deal with their kids travel sports, bank up on premium time or insert reason here. While e-mail, cell phones and voice mail make things easier than, say 1970, there are so many other distractions that it takes a very dedicated group of people to make any real change. And we’re not even discussing the people who benefit from the status quo working against you.
Thinking you’re going to cast a vote for “your guy” and wipe your hands saying you’ve done your part, and thinking any real changes is going to happen is pure folly.
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