I agree; but also would like to add that the attrition of the Probie to 3rd yr guys leaving for other carriers will start to happen more frequently the longer the contract is delayed. If I had to guess, they're definitely planning on delaying and shrinking in the short term to pay down the debt...but hey the longer we go the bigger that retro $$$ right? :cool:

I think classes are filled because there's an expectation of a contract that at least gets us within spitting distance of the others. The ULCCs are getting Alaska-like rates soon - without some sort of contract we'll not only be looking up at Delta/United/SWA, but up at *everyone*. And this will be happening right as our retirements go into overdrive. I think we'll have a staffing problem in that case, especially as the junior guys start jumping ship. And we still need to solve the issue of check airmen.

My guess is the union will cave on QOL and attach the previous AIP's work rules to Delta's rates and send it to a vote. We'll all scream and yell about it on here (including me) but our limp-dick pilot group will vote it in by 70+%.

If RA language is not clearly defined, 18 hr LC missing, and that CAW baloney is anywhere near it, just to name a few items, I'm a hell no.

This is correct, AA is not Delta, Delta makes more money and has less unions 100% true statement.

They make that claim because they don’t want to be compared against Delta’s margins when it’s time for their bonuses, because they see Delta as a different animal.

They also are saying things in the AIP will cost AA differently than Delta. He said they have an Atlanta centric operation making reassignment pay have a different cost.

Delta’s AIP is reported to cost 7B, if AA copies if word for word could cost them 6B could be 8B. They are different companies. He is not going to give APA the Delta AIP word for word if it will cost AA 20% more.

There gonna match the raises and squabble about the value of the other changes to total out at 7B. Both sides will lie about those cost changes but are gonna have to be honest enough to get a deal done.

If you want it word for word and it’s more expensive for AA your just gonna to vote no and watch Delta make 18 then 23% more than you, until AA pays down more debt, makes more money, or United announces a deal.

Delta generates 50B a year with 12k pilots and 400 RJs, AA generates 50B a year with 15k pilots and 600 RJs.

Right there with you man. I hope I'm wrong about our pilot group, but I think we have too many guys that have been kicked in the nuts for too long and just want to take the money and run.

Crazy times we live in …

Associative Press (AP). American Airlines CEO Robert Isom, in an exclusive interview with the AP, stated that the Airline has made an unprecedented request to the Department of Transportation (DOT).

American Airlines has requested that the DOT reclassify the airline from Legacy Carrier to a new classification of Mid-Cost Carrier.

Mr. Isom explained to the AP that the reclassification will more correctly align the Carrier’s product offering to the industry standards. Admittedly, Mr. Isom concedes that the post pandemic product offering has been sub-par to their primary Legacy Carrier competitors, Delta and United.

The changing business model is apparently directly related to the rising cost of labor and the stagnation of ticket prices. Mr. Isom is specifically concerned about the rising labor cost as it relates to their pilots. “We simply cannot afford to pay them on par with what is soon to be the standard Legacy Airline pilot pay, as seen in the latest Delta management and pilot contractual agreement in principle (AIP).” The AIP between Delta management and pilots has been previously reported by the AP and includes significant contractual pay and quality of life improvements. According to the Delta Union Spokesperson, they have almost regained those pay and contractual losses suffered in 2001 due to the September 11th terrorist attack on the U.S. and the following Delta bankruptcy.


This true?

As in that this was from the Associative Press? Yes, this was from them.

No. It's Satire.

Who has the time to come up with this stuff?

Fake News! Nice try though, Associative Press. It’s ASSOCIATED PRESS. Guess the misspelling will keep the lawyers off the authors @$$.

No it’s true, I also saw it on Ruuters.

Until it’s FB official, I’m not buying it!!

people are so gullible. It’s a fake article written as a joke. If all it took to reign in labor costs was petitioning the DOT to label you a “mid cost carrier” then every major would follow suit.

I think you meant you saw it on Neutered. :D

Resurrecting this thread with a question. As far as getting an AIP in the near future, does anyone think it’s possible management is waiting on the NEA judgement before committing to anything?

I think they are waiting for DL AIP to become a TA.

Yep, the DL AIP is the key here. If DL ratifies the AIP into a contract, expect AA to follow with something fairly similar in pay rates and several other big rocks regarding scheduling, etc.

The argument that "classes are full" and AA will just drag it out for a few more years won't work. Alaska came to an agreement because they were losing a LOT of pilots to other airlines. If DL, UA (I'm very confident Kirby will match DL) and then WN come up with agreements that pull far away from AA, then AA will likely be a stoping point for pilots looking to jump ship to other airlines...in effect, they will become the new Alaska due to attrition.

As others have said, I wouldn't go out and buy that boat or Porsche just yet. But I would be very surprised if by summer of 23, AA pilots aren't on a solid track to a contract similar to DL (probably still short in some areas, but pay rate-wise, yes).

Maybe we'll get three layers of Red?

Bump! Anyone have any updates? TA getting close to hitting the street? Would rather not have to worry about a strike while on probation...indoc is coming up quick :)

We got an update a couple of weeks ago. Something like 60+ items remain and another 120+ items still being discussed. I’d be surprised if anything happened in the next 6 months, but it will happen.

APA won’t be striking within the next year.

You don’t have to worry about a strike because the chances that 15,000 pilots will be allowed to walk is less than zero. Which is exactly how the RLA is intended to work unfortunately. With that said, I’m confident that at the end of March (super duper negotiation sections) we’ll be told that “Progress was made, but we remain too far apart on many critical issues that you’ve been clear are important to you. We will continue to work in earnest to make sure your concerns are addressed. AA has agreed to further super duper negotiations in April/May”. Or something like that.

Super super extra special in April.. 🤣. An update in April on how March went will be very telling since they are supposedly meeting every weekday this month and the company wants something by April.

Check your CCI messages.. “An update from CEO Robert Isom: Pilot negotiations”

Do share. There are already two recent public articles where Isom states AA will compete with Delta on PAY and profit sharing. No actual quotes that I could see, though. Obviously, as many have said, pay rates are only a small part of a contract value.

I'll take "worst career move made in the history of aviation that didn't result in bent metal for $500"

...and this might be the biggest misconception out there. AA as it exists today might have "American" painted on the side, but in reality the operation is Cactus. Its not a legacy anymore. So any time you are thinking of using the word American with regards to this company substitute America West.

"Should I leave America West for Delta"

"Will America West match Deltas contract"

You'll get to the right answer.

More like best career move made in history.. smh

You couldn’t pay me enough to even apply at delta.

Strike vote incoming. BOD voted 20-0 to approve a strike authorization vote.

:cool:

filler

5 milly sign on bonus to have the great eloquent Red Forman to grace Delta with her presence. Still a no on the apply?

UAL pilot here. Sorry if this was asked already. When was your amendable date? Are you in mediation and if so for how long?

Thanks

Are you drunk or is it just that time of the month?

The amendable date was January 2. 2020. We aren’t in mediation.