Contract 2023
05-08-2023, 06:24 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,883
Originally Posted by Dunkin
Everybody made good $ in 2022, it was the most understaffed year in aviation history. I would come out ahead 10 years from now if I went to Delta with their better earnings (profit sharing), schedule flexibility, and more competent management and union. APA wasted a year plus on a targeted approach that wasn’t even asking for what Delta got and then decided to start over with a new NC that apparently agrees to concessions in multiple sections. Delta gets rid of their 50 seat RJs while we bring on AWAC again and pay RJ CKA $426/hr. I could go on but you get the point, it’s frustrAAting.
05-10-2023, 04:43 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 270
Sticking points
1. Pay. This has to do with A321NEO grouped with A319 pay. 737max with 737.
2. Retro pay. AA does not want to give us what Delta got. Delta only has two unions. If AA gives its pilots retro then all other Unions on property will want it.
3. Vacation accrual. We want more.
4. Sick accrual. We want more. We get 60hrs/yr. Currently. We can’t call off sick so one sick call on a 4 day sequence burns more than a third for the year.
5. Trip pairing distribution. Too many 4 day trips. We would like some control over this. AA not budging.
October negotiations that did not quite get to a TA included $1100 dollar retro/signing bonus. If we were to get the Delta deal it would be approaching 100 times that amount for a Captain currently at 12 year pay. No way anything will pass without Delta type retro deal. This has to be industry standard. It would help deter Airlines from dragging negotiations out for years under the Railway Labor Act. I will NEVER vote for anything other than a lucrative retro deal. Any junior pilot should have this at the top of their items to desire. Don’t think about the small retro check you would get with this deal. Think contracts down the road. It will always be long drawn out battle if this precedent is not set.
1. Pay. This has to do with A321NEO grouped with A319 pay. 737max with 737.
2. Retro pay. AA does not want to give us what Delta got. Delta only has two unions. If AA gives its pilots retro then all other Unions on property will want it.
3. Vacation accrual. We want more.
4. Sick accrual. We want more. We get 60hrs/yr. Currently. We can’t call off sick so one sick call on a 4 day sequence burns more than a third for the year.
5. Trip pairing distribution. Too many 4 day trips. We would like some control over this. AA not budging.
October negotiations that did not quite get to a TA included $1100 dollar retro/signing bonus. If we were to get the Delta deal it would be approaching 100 times that amount for a Captain currently at 12 year pay. No way anything will pass without Delta type retro deal. This has to be industry standard. It would help deter Airlines from dragging negotiations out for years under the Railway Labor Act. I will NEVER vote for anything other than a lucrative retro deal. Any junior pilot should have this at the top of their items to desire. Don’t think about the small retro check you would get with this deal. Think contracts down the road. It will always be long drawn out battle if this precedent is not set.
05-10-2023, 05:36 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2021
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by Varks
Sticking points
1. Pay. This has to do with A321NEO grouped with A319 pay. 737max with 737.
2. Retro pay. AA does not want to give us what Delta got. Delta only has two unions. If AA gives its pilots retro then all other Unions on property will want it.
3. Vacation accrual. We want more.
4. Sick accrual. We want more. We get 60hrs/yr. Currently. We can’t call off sick so one sick call on a 4 day sequence burns more than a third for the year.
5. Trip pairing distribution. Too many 4 day trips. We would like some control over this. AA not budging.
October negotiations that did not quite get to a TA included $1100 dollar retro/signing bonus. If we were to get the Delta deal it would be approaching 100 times that amount for a Captain currently at 12 year pay. No way anything will pass without Delta type retro deal. This has to be industry standard. It would help deter Airlines from dragging negotiations out for years under the Railway Labor Act. I will NEVER vote for anything other than a lucrative retro deal. Any junior pilot should have this at the top of their items to desire. Don’t think about the small retro check you would get with this deal. Think contracts down the road. It will always be long drawn out battle if this precedent is not set.
1. Pay. This has to do with A321NEO grouped with A319 pay. 737max with 737.
2. Retro pay. AA does not want to give us what Delta got. Delta only has two unions. If AA gives its pilots retro then all other Unions on property will want it.
3. Vacation accrual. We want more.
4. Sick accrual. We want more. We get 60hrs/yr. Currently. We can’t call off sick so one sick call on a 4 day sequence burns more than a third for the year.
5. Trip pairing distribution. Too many 4 day trips. We would like some control over this. AA not budging.
October negotiations that did not quite get to a TA included $1100 dollar retro/signing bonus. If we were to get the Delta deal it would be approaching 100 times that amount for a Captain currently at 12 year pay. No way anything will pass without Delta type retro deal. This has to be industry standard. It would help deter Airlines from dragging negotiations out for years under the Railway Labor Act. I will NEVER vote for anything other than a lucrative retro deal. Any junior pilot should have this at the top of their items to desire. Don’t think about the small retro check you would get with this deal. Think contracts down the road. It will always be long drawn out battle if this precedent is not set.
05-10-2023, 07:19 AM
#16
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Icaruss
I’ve said here multiple times. It’ll be a while until we get something to vote on. Union and company have mostly agreed on Delta’s contract similarity. Whatever else that is different or surpassing Delta, they had and will say no. Whoever thinks otherwise is not reality.
We will go to mediation and will not be coming out winners out of it.
We will go to mediation and will not be coming out winners out of it.
05-10-2023, 11:53 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 366
Originally Posted by HastyPack
I believe the retro pay is one of the most important factors. There has to be a consequence for the long, drawn out negotiations. If the full retro was industry standard, contract negotiations would be concluded much faster in the future.
When inflation runs rampant during section 6 you get a lot of that value. If inflation runs rampant during a contract and falls flat during section 6 you don’t get anything.
Your escalating the value of retro during high historical inflation, by assuming inflation is always high and always during section 6.
If Delta had inked a deal on 2/2020, 2/2021, or 2/2022 they would be at a fraction of what they are at now. No possible way they open up the contract just because of inflation, and no possible way retro goes all the way back into a prior contract.
Retro is just a trigger word for high leverage during peak inflation and peak earnings.
Last edited by OpieTaylor; 05-10-2023 at 12:11 PM.
05-10-2023, 12:01 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,278
Originally Posted by Varks
. No way anything will pass without Delta type retro deal. This has to be industry standard. It would help deter Airlines from dragging negotiations out for years under the Railway Labor Act.
We got full retro (including DC contributions) back in 2015/2016 during our TA-1/TA-2 days, yet that didn’t prevent DL from dragging their feet prior to Covid shutting the world down.
05-10-2023, 12:50 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 779
Originally Posted by biigD
It's remarkable how quickly the tone of the union emails has changed.
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