Originally Posted by Fichael80

Of note, you have 12 scheduled reserve days off with AA, but they cannot fly you more than 16 days a month due to 85 hour max. (5:15 credit/day x 16 = 84 hours). I'm at 80% seniority in PHX and can hold most weekend days off on reserve. I can also hold a line but will likely then fly 4-day trips that start with a red eye. Long call is awesome with the ability to proffer trips (I mostly fly 1 or 2 days trips). An 0500 or 0800 short call RAP will keep you from flying red eyes.

Originally Posted by CC268

Hey guys,

I've read a lot of threads on here with respect to SWA vs Legacy Airline. However, like anything, these threads are always pretty person specific (where you live, family life, etc). I generally steer away from the forums as I think you get a pretty harsh minority here that seems unhelpful, but on occasion there are some helpful people

Currently at SWA (probationary year), 29 years old, live in AZ and don't plan on leaving. SWA and AA have been my top two choices for the PHX base. I'm not committed to leaving SWA by any means, but I have been "data gathering" on AA and have thought about updating my app at AA again (apparently it is a new app now). So again, this is all theoretical at this point. Had a UA interview invite, but ended up passing on it since I was in training and honestly just didn't want to be a lifelong commuter.

My biggest priority is quality of life, especially as my wife and I start thinking about kids in the next few years. My wife works (and makes more money than me - for now). Flying international isn't a "dream" of mine, I don't care all that much about chasing widebodies, etc. That said, the schedules and sitting widebody reserve at some point in my career is certainly a consideration.

So here is the Pro/Con list I've come up with between the two:

SWA
Pros:
• Best schedule flexibility - I have to admit the ability to trade trips with the company, other pilots, and give away trips is nice
• Highest number of days off compared to the legacies (15 on reserve, 16-19 with a line)
• Efficient schedules - this could be both a pro and a con
• Quality of Life - probably the best when you look at schedule flexibility and number of days off - this was the biggest reason I came to SWA
• Great people - the Captains I have flown with have been fantastic
• Vacation - one week is really 3 weeks with "drop all"
• Sick time - lots of sick time - no one calls you or bothers you when your sick - the chiefs aren't hovering over you like the regionals

Cons:
• Flying 4 legs a day on the 737 is fatiguing - I greatly underestimated this when people said the schedules here are fatiguing. I'm actually more fatigued here than I ever was at the regionals. Now...is it worth it due to the extra days off at home? I think it might be, but time will tell.
• Shoulder flying every trip is, again, fatiguing. Waking up at 2:30 AM for AMs or getting in at 2AM for PMs is tough.
• Red eyes - none yet, but I bet it's coming, and when it does, I would venture to guess the schedules will be even more brutal
• Poor LTD compared to legacies
• The culture of caring for your people (specifically in DAL) seems like it is long gone
• New contract is nowhere in sight (I wouldn't be surprised if it is another year) - I don't want to be too short sighted on this, but it's not a great first impression walking into this
• No paid parking - I thought this was weird, considering my regional paid for parking - quite frankly, this is being nit picky and isn't a big deal
• Training at SWA is horribly inefficient and unorganized - this is behind me, so I guess that doesn't matter anymore lol
• Large tech debt - we use enough paper to put Dunder Mifflin out of business
• Efficient schedules with quick turns means it can be difficult to grab food and take care of yourself lol

American
**This is where I am hoping you guys at AA can help me fill in the blanks...I've compiled the best list of Pros/Cons I can come up with based on my knowledge

Pros:​​​​​​​
• Equipment variety for a young guy like myself (again...this isn't a huge deal to me, but it would be nice to fly the bus )
• Less legs per day, not so fatiguing - of course this comes at the cost of less efficient schedules and 4-5 day trips (yuck)
• The best seniority movement of any legacy airline
• New AIP looks good (not sure what QOL improvements look like though)
• Long call reserve is an option (don't have this at SWA)
• Newest aircraft fleet - at the cost of high debt

Cons:
• Very little schedule flexibility - you are kind stuck with what you get
• Fewer days off (12 on reserve, ~15 with a line)
• Getting a weekend off will likely take years?
• 4+ day trips
• A week of vacation is just that - a week due to PBS (at SWA a week is really 3 weeks)
• PBS - I don't mind PBS and was actually quite good at it when I was flying for the regionals, but it was very clear that it is only good for the very senior folks
• DEBT - if I went to AA and the economy went to crap (the economy is already on edge), I'd probably be the first on the chopping block
• Red eyes - BOO! Although SWA is probably going to get these at some point anyways
• Expect international widebody flying to take 10 years off your life

I have a lot of friends telling me I need to go to a legacy, considering I have 36 years ahead of me. That said, I worry that the quality of life is going to leave a lot to be desired at AA. Sounds like the money will be there, but at the expense of quality of life. Probably similar schedule to what I had at the regionals when I left (~15 days off as a lineholder, ~12 days off on reserve) - this seems lacking in my opinion. That said, I don't want to be too short sighted about it.

The overall picture I get is basically this - SWA is going to be the best QOL, but at the expense of fatiguing schedules and flying the 737 for the rest of my career. AA is going to be the best career opportunity in terms of equipment, but at the expense of QOL and financial security (in terms of the company that is). AA is the biggest risk vs. reward, with the hope that one day you're sitting on widebody reserve (how long this would take, I have no idea).

Thanks for the feedback.

Originally Posted by El Peso

Correction to days off on reserve. It’s 13 in a 31 day month, 12 for shorter months.

Originally Posted by CC268

Hey guys,

I've read a lot of threads on here with respect to SWA vs Legacy Airline. However, like anything, these threads are always pretty person specific (where you live, family life, etc). I generally steer away from the forums as I think you get a pretty harsh minority here that seems unhelpful, but on occasion there are some helpful people

Currently at SWA (probationary year), 29 years old, live in AZ and don't plan on leaving. SWA and AA have been my top two choices for the PHX base. I'm not committed to leaving SWA by any means, but I have been "data gathering" on AA and have thought about updating my app at AA again (apparently it is a new app now). So again, this is all theoretical at this point. Had a UA interview invite, but ended up passing on it since I was in training and honestly just didn't want to be a lifelong commuter.

My biggest priority is quality of life, especially as my wife and I start thinking about kids in the next few years. My wife works (and makes more money than me - for now). Flying international isn't a "dream" of mine, I don't care all that much about chasing widebodies, etc. That said, the schedules and sitting widebody reserve at some point in my career is certainly a consideration.

So here is the Pro/Con list I've come up with between the two:

SWA
Pros:
• Best schedule flexibility - I have to admit the ability to trade trips with the company, other pilots, and give away trips is nice
• Highest number of days off compared to the legacies (15 on reserve, 16-19 with a line)
• Efficient schedules - this could be both a pro and a con
• Quality of Life - probably the best when you look at schedule flexibility and number of days off - this was the biggest reason I came to SWA
• Great people - the Captains I have flown with have been fantastic
• Vacation - one week is really 3 weeks with "drop all"
• Sick time - lots of sick time - no one calls you or bothers you when your sick - the chiefs aren't hovering over you like the regionals

Cons:
• Flying 4 legs a day on the 737 is fatiguing - I greatly underestimated this when people said the schedules here are fatiguing. I'm actually more fatigued here than I ever was at the regionals. Now...is it worth it due to the extra days off at home? I think it might be, but time will tell.
• Shoulder flying every trip is, again, fatiguing. Waking up at 2:30 AM for AMs or getting in at 2AM for PMs is tough.
• Red eyes - none yet, but I bet it's coming, and when it does, I would venture to guess the schedules will be even more brutal
• Poor LTD compared to legacies
• The culture of caring for your people (specifically in DAL) seems like it is long gone
• New contract is nowhere in sight (I wouldn't be surprised if it is another year) - I don't want to be too short sighted on this, but it's not a great first impression walking into this
• No paid parking - I thought this was weird, considering my regional paid for parking - quite frankly, this is being nit picky and isn't a big deal
• Training at SWA is horribly inefficient and unorganized - this is behind me, so I guess that doesn't matter anymore lol
• Large tech debt - we use enough paper to put Dunder Mifflin out of business
• Efficient schedules with quick turns means it can be difficult to grab food and take care of yourself lol

American
**This is where I am hoping you guys at AA can help me fill in the blanks...I've compiled the best list of Pros/Cons I can come up with based on my knowledge

Pros:​​​​​​​
• Equipment variety for a young guy like myself (again...this isn't a huge deal to me, but it would be nice to fly the bus )
• Less legs per day, not so fatiguing - of course this comes at the cost of less efficient schedules and 4-5 day trips (yuck)
• The best seniority movement of any legacy airline
• New AIP looks good (not sure what QOL improvements look like though)
• Long call reserve is an option (don't have this at SWA)
• Newest aircraft fleet - at the cost of high debt

Cons:
• Very little schedule flexibility - you are kind stuck with what you get
• Fewer days off (12 on reserve, ~15 with a line)
• Getting a weekend off will likely take years?
• 4+ day trips
• A week of vacation is just that - a week due to PBS (at SWA a week is really 3 weeks)
• PBS - I don't mind PBS and was actually quite good at it when I was flying for the regionals, but it was very clear that it is only good for the very senior folks
• DEBT - if I went to AA and the economy went to crap (the economy is already on edge), I'd probably be the first on the chopping block
• Red eyes - BOO! Although SWA is probably going to get these at some point anyways
• Expect international widebody flying to take 10 years off your life

I have a lot of friends telling me I need to go to a legacy, considering I have 36 years ahead of me. That said, I worry that the quality of life is going to leave a lot to be desired at AA. Sounds like the money will be there, but at the expense of quality of life. Probably similar schedule to what I had at the regionals when I left (~15 days off as a lineholder, ~12 days off on reserve) - this seems lacking in my opinion. That said, I don't want to be too short sighted about it.

The overall picture I get is basically this - SWA is going to be the best QOL, but at the expense of fatiguing schedules and flying the 737 for the rest of my career. AA is going to be the best career opportunity in terms of equipment, but at the expense of QOL and financial security (in terms of the company that is). AA is the biggest risk vs. reward, with the hope that one day you're sitting on widebody reserve (how long this would take, I have no idea).

Thanks for the feedback.

Originally Posted by symbian simian

Not at either, but I do have PBS. Your credit for the "week" means you probably only need another 4-8 days of work for the rest of month. For me, I can easily get 3 weeks in a row with 1 week of vacation, just not for every of my 3 weeks.

Originally Posted by Flyinggrill

Also to make note of, like others have said PHX is only a 320 base. At 29 years old, depending on your class drop, you may not be able to hold the 320 in class (which is what happened to me). So in that case you’ll be seat-locked on the 737 for six months, and then when you get the PHX 320 award you’ll be withheld for an additional year. I’ve been commuting to another 737 base since I got on the line. By the time I touch the 320 I’ll have been on AA property for over two years.

Originally Posted by CC268

This will likely happen to me...I'd go to LAX and just commute for the 737. It is a small price to pay for a long career.

Originally Posted by CC268

Funny thing is you read these other threads in the AA section and everyone is complaining about quality of life. So which is it lol?