BOS base
 

I received CJO from both AA and DL and worry about making the right bet.
AA has a very small base at BOS (200 pilots out of 15,000+), and rumors of closing the base.
DL holds half the airport and has rumors of opening a base at BOS.
Those rumors can go on for years and can become reality tomorrow - Either way, I'll make a bet here.

My question is if I live at BOS and go to AA, will it be worth it - Once I upgrade I'll probably commute to LGA until I can hold BOS again.
Heard it's 15 years as of today...
What's the most junior CA at BOS?

whoever you’re talking to is blowing smoke. Current junior CA this fall is a Jan 2015 hire. Will continue to get more junior. The more common rumor is an airbus base eventually opening there because the vast majority of flying there is on it.

with the NEA commuting to NYC on AA metal sucks. Went from over a dozen a day to just 5, and only to JFK. There is also a lot AA guys doing it. Now if the NEA goes away, that would hopefully improve and at least get some LGA-BOS flying back from JetBlue.

it’s really a gamble on how good or bad or nonexistent BOS becomes in the next few years. We have plenty of gates, just being under utilized. New international terminal, and XLRs in a couple years could be a big deal for AA’s presence there. Or not.

Delta will at least guarantee you a solid career in NY with lots of metal for your commute (republic at least). Widebody trips passing through town too (no idea what base they originate in)

Up until a few months ago it was 15 years but now it’s 2015 like mentioned above. There are a few slots in the vacancy bid in a few weeks so who knows what it’ll
be after that. FO slots have also been offered in new hire classes, but that could just be a very temporary thing.

I believe it was sometime last year that the then BOS APA reps put out a blast all but promising a 320 base in BOS subject to ratification of a new contract. Take all of that with a grain of salt, but I suspect that's probably more true than not.

Agree with the "blowing smoke" comment above, but at the same time am willing to eat those words if proven wrong.

those Boston reps were full of wacky tabacky smoke

FWIW, I faced the same exact decision recently. After several months of talking to pilots at each company, I decided to go to AA. It was an agonizing decision, and I'll most likely have lingering doubts/uneasiness about it for a long time.

What it ultimately came down to is the bird-in-hand. Getting BOS is my top priority, so I eventually had to snap out of the allure of the mighty widget and choose the company that I know, ...today...., can actually get me there. 7 new hires at AA got BOS in May straight out of indoc. Not bad.

A surprising number of DL pilots actually helped solidify my decision. Numerous guys advised me that the DL BOS base rumor has been a rumor for many years and that although it might happen, it also might not, and to be prepared to commute to NYC for my career. And even if DL BOS does happen, there are many questions about how senior it will go, and how long it would take to get A-320 training (my SSAN is terrible -- starts with a 0. Based on recent drops, I would have got a 737, or possibly 220 or 717).

My kids are still young and my priority is to avoid a commute. Once they're older and/or off to college, I can assess if I want to commute to NYC for quicker upgrade, WB flying, or better relative seniority. ....Or possibly stay in BOS forever, who knows? It's currently senior on the CA side, but the CA list is OLD and the upgrade time will continue to drop drastically over the next 5 years.

I met AA's new BOS Chief Pilot a couple weeks ago. I asked about the future of the base and his overall comment was "stable and status quo for the foreseeable future." It sounds like there's so much hiring and movement right now that the training burden would be too high to open (or close) a category. **Which is the same reason (among a couple others) DL is citing for not opening a BOS base yet.

Also, I'll add that the only place I've read anything about BOS closing is on chat forums and/or social media. Seems like conjecture. The "BOS might close" rumor seems to be based solely on the fact that the 73 BOS base is small. But I haven't heard anything from the company along those lines. In fact, the only rumors I've heard through company channels regarding BOS are about growth/expansion (via 320's, XLRs, etc).

Good luck with your decision. It's a tough one. My only regret is not looking into B6. I was told by several peers that B6 is a "stepping-stone LCC" and not a "destination airline." So I didn't even apply. I think I still would have picked AA for several reasons, but I regret not at least looking into B6 and seeing what they had to offer. If BOS is truly a top priority for you, my advice is to apply to airlines with a BOS base -- i.e. AA and B6, .....and DL only if/when they open one.

Cheers

Thank you. That's exactly my situation.
I know it's kind of a "champion problem", I mean a year ago I thought it will take me at least 5 years to maybe get a CJO, never the less from two majors...
As of now, it looks like it's going to be AA because of the BOS base that is already up and running. Hope I'm making the right move and thanks again for the information.

one of the reasons for the AA tieup with Jetblue via the NEA was for access to, or at least some benefit from, JB's LGA slots.
AA suffered from inadequate LGA slots due to trading them to Delta for a bunch of DCA slots back in the day. IOW, if AA had adequate LGA slots, they wouldn't have needed the NEA in the first place. YMMV

uh… no. AA is letting JB use AA slots in LGA. USairways certainly sold the farm but AA itself still had plenty of slots. Enough slots combined, I believe we had to divest a few for merger approval. AA lent JB a lot of slots being used by RJs. The NEA was sold to us as JB helping feed our Europe and SA flying in JFK. In reality, the main benefit appears to be huge growth AAdvantage club membership with JB customers.

but in a round about way, yes, AA is too small in NYC. JetBlue slots at all 3 airports are spreading the flying around, to let AA focus on “more efficient route structures, without raising prices”. I don’t really believe it. Nor did the judge. It’s a merger without all the heavy lifting required.

very curious why JetBlue isnt on the table for you

It wasn't the reps it was the now retired NY director of flight in the "NE news" monthly email.

Maybe throw your app in at JetBlue and see what happens if BOS is a high priority for you. I don’t know much about the AA Boston base but at JetBlue I only fly day turns and I’m home every night. If that’s not what you want, there’s plenty of variety as well.

Hey thanks for this it's pretty helpful. Those are the 3 airlines I applied to and I'm still a month away from training trying to decide between the two I received offers from. Boston base is priority for me since it'll help me with the ANG.

Same.

Thanks for this also helpful. I'm leaning AA over B6 just for future mobility if after my time in the ANG is up we decide we want to leave New England. Not originally from there so going out on a limb a little bit with the move to the Northeast. That's my frame of reference trying to make my decision, open to persuasion though! Thanks again.

As a new FO at BOS, how long is everyone seeing to hold a line? I live up in the northeast and could drive to BOS fairly easy. Looks like commuting to LGA is kind of difficult. Thanks for any information!

Check out the products on the APA TASC site. Lots of information and you can go back through months/years of PBS awards and get an idea of what your juniority can expect.

For now probably immediately. Reserve trends senior in BOS. Worst case a month or 2.

Any estimate how long it could take to hold 737 Capt in BOS ? Or would commuting to NYC have better QOL holding a line sooner ?

Junior captain at BOS is a Jan '17 hire. But the CA at the 75% mark there is a 1990 hire. Junior captain at LGA is a Feb '22 hire. And the captain at 60% base seniority is a Nov '16 hire. So you'd undoubtedly have way more seniority early on at LGA. But most of the more junior CAs at LGA commute while reserves seems to go more senior in BOS. So your QOL will be highly dependent on your personal situation, but here's some data for you.

currently sitting at 6 years. Will probably drop dramatically. Small base. 737 only. Not great trips I hear. Average age 58. Many mass/NH/RI people commute to NY for the better flying and seniority. Yes, NY is a way better base for QOL if you are willing to commute and want to upgrade asap

Trips start early and end late. But the actual makeup isn't bad. Many with just 1-2 legs a day, and transcons. Like like CLT or DFW. Ugh.

Domestic only though, so no real fun flying. It's too bad, hope we can take some stuff back from JB, who are now distracted by Spirit merger.

Hey all, just looking to get an idea of what the BOS base sees for flying. I know the answer to this could be quite broad, but what kind of trips does the 73 see out of BOS? Good overnights? Bad overnights? more two or three-day trips with long overnights, short overnights? I know the answer to this could be very different for different people, but what's the good, the bad and the ugly of the trips look like? Thanks for your input!

It's a mix.

No "victory laps." Best base in the system.

Adding on to the above, how is BOS for commuting? Sounds like it's not really commutable on the front or back ends (worst case scenario), so is there a decent crashpad network? Or do commuters rely on hotels?

I don't know how commutable the trips are, but I think BOS is mostly non commuters. If you are commuting, might as well go LGA/PHL/CLT/DCA and have better seniority and a bigger bid status...and the Airbus an Widebody option.

This is the way.

Good to see upgrade times coming down a bit. Currently a BOS JB GUY and thinking of making the jump to AA this year. Looking back at other post it seems like the Airbus coming to BOS is a rumor at best?

Would not recommend commuting

Edit: Since PBS is open I did a very quick check. There are only 6 total trips for DEC that report after 12:00 and also release before 15:00. If you move the release out to 17:00 there's 14. 20:00, 21.

Thank you, that's some good additional detail.

Yeah, BOS is really a locals base (MA, ME, NH).

You'll find alot of guys commuting to DCA from BOS for the bus too. That's a pretty easy commute with alot of frequency. DCA stuff typically starts early but easily commutable same day on the backend.

BOS has approx 287 pilots right now. 95 are in their first year. Using that blunt data the guy who showed up a year ago is approx 1/3 up the list. If everyone upgrades by seniority he'd be in the top 1/3 of FO's. Trust me, his perspective is going to be VASTLY different than the guy who shows up right before the influx shuts down. That guy will struggle to get off of reserve. This has happened multiple times in the BOS base history - locked down, big influx...and the guys at the tail end look at the same names ahead of them for decades. If the company plans to keep increasing the BOS base even then, at some point, it will slow down and then you're back to hoping for retirements or you can start sending the senior guys chain saws, 'vote no on motorcycle laws', etc.

Thanks for the data, definitely a lot to think about as a JB guy looking to come to AA and be in BOS. Qol is good at B6 in BOS but upgrades look 5-7 years away at best and the throw in the merger uncertainty and it makes AA look like the good bet.

For the new hires assigned BOS out of training, are there any recent BOS commuters that can offer tips and tricks to surviving RSV in BOS as a commuter? It looks like commuting in the day before and leaving the day after is the law of the land there. Is there a decent crashpad/hotel network up there? Do new hire reserves tend to get used much?

Be aggressive with proferring as a commuter, especially for trips that have early releases.

I was fortunate for my time as a commuter that I managed to profer and get trips that allowed me to commute home same day as the trip ended. Other times I wasn't used at all during my stretch and got released 6 hours after being on SC on my last day thanks to the GTD I built up from flying putting me in a higher group. So any last minute trips that did pop open went to people in the lower groups.

That was just my experience and I certainly was lucky to be able to grab the trips I did( no LC's available, and those trips being available).

did BOS seem to go jr. I your new hire class?

No. 5 or 6 slots available. MIA and LGA are still junior on the 737 side of the house.

i would ask jetblue guys about pads

Noted and thank you!

That's a tough call for sure. IDK what I'd do in your shoes either, however what I would weigh more heavily is the plan B especially in the case of small bases. If you lived in DFW or ATL for example, the choice would be crystal clear. In BOS, not so much IMO and here's why.

If plan A is a BOS base, then AA has one right now. A small one. DL does not. DL does more BOS flying than AA (I think) and there's been a strong rumor of a BOS base, but there's probably too much training going on to open a new category right now. It did almost happen right before covid (CP positions advertised etc). Most think it will in the not too distant future.

There's also a lot of transit BOS flying on widebodies. What they call W trips. Like ATL-LHR-BOS-AMS-ATL or something like that (substitute ATL for any base). Almost all of those trips are extremely commutable on both ends and have 24+ hour Boston overnights. Is that as good as a Boston base? Of course not. But then you have to consider:

Your plan B.

In either case it would most likely be a NYC base. I think DL is bigger there too. NYC is huge for DL and seniority advancement is very fast. DL gives you (someone correct me if I'm wrong) a much more robust plan B option from a long term point of view.

You of course can't and shouldn't count on DL to open a BOS base; they likely will IMO, but also may never do so. But you also shouldn't plan exclusively on AA to keep their small BOS base; they probably will, but small bases have a habbit of closing in this industry. DL has a bigger and more robust NYC option that has everything and everything is fairly junior with rapid progression.

Either way its not an easy decision and I don't know what I would do if I were you. I'd just caution you against weighing a small current BOS base so heavily and especially exclusively. Which would you pick if DL also opened a BOS base? Which would you pick if AA closed their BOS base and neither had one? Which would you rather be at if you became a permanant commuter to NYC?

Best of luck in your decision. The good news there is you're having to decide between two good choices so whichever one you pick you should have a great career!

Did BOS CA change much with the last vacancy? If a new hire didn't get BOS in indoc would it be better to bid 73 in a more desirable base rather than LGA to make a MBE more appealing to a pilot trying to leave BOS? It looks like there's not many 73 departures from BOS and a bunch of airbus transitioning through, are there any from or back end dhd or long BOS layovers on the bus?

BOS went super junior in the vacancy. I would not count on MBE as people generally want to be there and arent forced in to it. If you have a class date before march, you will likely be able to participate in the next vacancy and hold BOS.