It's not just about pilots

 

that is incorrect.

yr1 fo e175 envoy: $93/h
yr1 fo 190 aa: $116.05/hr

yr 12 fo e175 envoy: $111/hr
yr 12 fo e190aa: $181.60/hr (probably more now.... but yea same?)

captain:

12 yr e175 capt: $191/hr
12 yr e190aa: $266/hr

plus 17% 401k. 3 weeks initial vacation etc.....

 

I'm not sure about this part. We have a lot of outstations that are serviced by WO ops and I think those outstations are non-union too. I think you're right about ops at the hub and the rest of what you said.

 

It's more complicated than that. I was a year 7 CA making $213.75 when I left Envoy and I was crediting WAY more hours than I could ever credit here. I will be an airbus captain here before I approach what I was making there. That said, it's more complicated than that. A lot of the reason I was doing so well had to do with TEMPORARY high pay rates you're not addressing as well as some somewhat permanent soft pay rules we don't have here.

 

I think "they" and "SNB" need to be defined for me to understand what you're saying. I'm not even sure what I know what you mean by existing categories really...

 

What aren't you sure about?

When the % of mainline flights hits a threshold, mainline ground crews get the station.

If it's under a certain % (don't know it) it's classified as "regional" and done by a contractor. This could be WO ENY or PDT or someone else. WO's are union but pay is abysmal.

 

I say I'm not sure about that part because I've been to outstations where all I see are mainline tails and the ops is Peidmont or some such. Maybe they're flushed with WO when I'm not there. I'm not standing there all day counting.

And for clarification, I think the WO ops are union at the hubs and non-union at the outstations.

 

So looks like there are several steps. Stations with <105 weekly mainline departures are outsourced. Stations with 140-175 weekly departures can be outsourced under certain conditions if I'm reading the contract correctly.

I don't know how they handle split ops ie CLT/PHL/DCA/DFW etc. I'm no expert.

But I do know that when certain thresholds are met, the station must be converted to a mainline one.

 

No arguement there.

I will say, with your first line, it looks like the threshhold could actually be quite high to force it to be in house at an outstation. I mean, 15 mainline flights per day ARE outsourced. Not may be. ARE outsourced. That's higher than I would have thought. Additionally 20-25 departues per day may be outsourced? Again, higher than I would have thought. There are A LOT of airports that fit these descriptions.

Second line, my impression is HUBS are strickly union jobs with union protections. WO does their own there and AA does their own there, for the most part.

I do remember using either Peidmont or PSA (can't remember which) for CLT when I was at Envoy but that's the only exception I can think of and even that was WO to WO.

My original point being, outstations and hubs are different and is an example that not all WO employees need to be brought over. Some will need to be and certainly it is more than just about the pilots. But it's not as simple as saying EVERYONE has to be mainline now. Hell, AAG may decide to only bring in one or two of the WO anyway (if they bring any at all). There's no reason it has to be all 3 of them.

 

That's precisely who you'll want representing you. Oversight from national and UAL/DAL pressure will ensure that mainline pilots aren't stapled or otherwise screwed.

APA will give management whatever it wants, and throw your career expectations under the bus in the process.