66? big. nice. almost everything but CLT. very nice.

extremely difficult. I had to have two trips bought just to consolidate. I could believe how hard it was to get 100 hours of flight time in 4 months as a reserve WB FO.

We were comparing senior NB FO to junior NB CA.

As someone who has zero interest in actually doing any of our WB flying, stuff like this makes me consider bidding WB.

I understand that. I even highlighted that comparison in my original question. I guess I should re-word the question (not trying to sound condensing here either). I should ask how his rough math comes out to requiring 1500 hours a year credit to match.

What is your approx seniority? 9xxx, 8xxx?

11XXX. I’m very junior

Long call at American is attainable pretty quickly due to the reserve rules. Senior people who bid reserve will bid short-call so they can sit home most of the month.

Your post that I responded to was comparing WB FO to NB CA. The post you initially responded to wanting him to show his math was comparing NB FO to NB CA. I’m not sure what the disconnect is here.

Year 5 NB CA rate multiplied by 876 hours a year for LCR, divided by year 5 NB FO rate gives you 1367 hours to match. Based on SCR minimum the number would be 1423 hours to match. Not far off from the 1500 he stated and probably pretty accurate for most NB CA bid status…hardly anybody gets minimum, it’s usually closer to 80+.

Yes there was disconnect. Thank you! This was the math I was looking for.

Yes, agree. I was paid 1085 hours last year as a junior NB CA on reserve all year (mostly SC). It appears I will far exceed that number this year based on the amount of PR awarded YTD.

Point being, NB FO that hustles vs NB CA at min guarantee is a false equivalency.

False equivalency is not an accurate term in this case. I worked less than half the year(days on reserve but not used are not off, thus work days). I made within 5% of what I would have as a junior NB CA…maybe 10% if you base it on 80-something hours. I had every single day off that I wanted. I fly the trips I want.

Captains I fly with junior to me generally fall into one of three categories. Young Captains that either this is their first Captain position or that need to stroke their ego. Older Captains trying to build their retirement due to missed opportunity earlier in their career…or… Captains that are defined by their career and NEED to be the Captain(their social media or constant selfies tend to confirm this one). I don’t fall into any of those. I enjoy my seniority and QOL. QOL is unfortunately something that 73% of our pilots didn’t value in the last contract cycle.

I think it will take a lot longer to get to your seniority than it would to upgrade in base to CA. I am around 12k in seniority and to even get crappy 2 days in PBS, I need to be at around 6k, which would take me another 5+ years (can't look up the seniority on aapilots). I can likely upgrade in base at around 11k, which will likely be less than a year. I am currently 50-60% in the right seat. Going to plug CA in base isn't bad for me because I am 20 minutes from the airport. I will miss Imaxing, but it is worth it for another 80-90k a year.

Ok. Justify any way you want. I worked less and made more.

We're talking past(passed?) each other. It goes back to what I said earlier. Hired 4+ years ago? One could be getting close to 'senior' FO in most NB statuses.
Hired after that? Senior FO is only possible on things like LGA or MIA 737 but NB CA is starting to become a possibility.
Next it depends on age. Hired young? Might want to delay (especially if single and lower fixed expenses) to see what seniority buys. Hired older? Probably shouldn't spend half your career leaving almost 100k per year on the table (especially with a family to take care of).
As always, it's nice to have options to use whatever ever seniority one has to carve out something that works for you.

I’m not terribly senior to you. Certainly not in the aspect of DOH. I’m in the teens seniority in my base/seat. I can hold most 2 days but I don’t bid them because I don’t live in base. The only 2 days I can’t touch are the ODAN’s….low block, short duty..but they go to single digit and very low 2 digit seniority. I can hold any NB CA seat except BOS.

Enjoy the upgrade. I hope it works out well for you. I will upgrade when I can be a solid lineholder in my base/seat of choice. In the meantime I will fly only trips I want to and get the days off I need.

To each their own!

You said the whole year was reserve, and most of your time was SCR. Either way that’s 18 days a month. If you’re on reserve but don’t get called it still counts as a work day. You’re not able to ditch the phone and go hit the slopes..take the boat out…etc.

You’re not being honest with yourself or anybody else. I’m guessing you fit solidly into one of those 3 categories I mentioned. No offense intended.

whatever you got to tell yourself

As a senior ish FO who put in for upgrade, I can hold a CA line.

I get some good PPROJ as an FO but the idea of being attached to my phone some days looking for easy PM that works for me and my family is a pain sometimes, especially when you don’t get anything.

I think I’d rather skip the hustle and just work my line, try to trade down (lol good luck), and not bother with extra flying unless it falls in my lap.

Let’s see, not first captain gig, don’t need it for my ego, don’t post to social media about aviation, what else

Vast majority of new hires at AA have left seat experience or fighter pilots… the idea that they need to upgrade for ego boost is comical…

Everyone has their specific reasons for why and what they are doing. For me, I came over 2.5 years ago from the Corp Flying world when the hiring was at a frenzy. I had been a Captain, Check Airman, and Chief Pilot, previously over the past 25 years and now towards the tail end of my career, I needed to make as much money heading into the career home stretch as possible. Hence, me taking the first available upgrade possible (perhaps with this next vacancy announcement, we'll see...). My own career had been pockmarked by the various hits (Gulf wars, one and two, 911, Great recession, Covid, etc) which resulted in flight depts closing, planes being sold, etc. You roll with the punches. In coming over to AA, I saw an opportunity to try and recoup some of those losses. Honestly, I have no ego left at my age (my wife beat it out of me years ago, lol) and I don't relish the hassles I see the Capt here put up with at times, but, I will never be "senior one day" to enjoy the perks of a nice FO pay and lifestyle so, here I am, awaiting upgrade. We do what we have to do when we have to do it.

Imagine that - everyone is doing what they feel is right for their specific situation!

If you can hold a line as a CA in your desired bid status, you were absolutely not who I was referring to. Notice I mentioned junior Captains. I will take the upgrade when I can be a solid line holder in my desired bid status.

I’m not ever tied to my phone. I commute so that’s not really even an option. If I’m going for PM I wait for IROPS…which, let’s face it…it’s never a long wait.

I guess I’ve just been quite unlucky to fly with half a dozen or so very junior Captains in the past 6-8 months still consolidating that had never been PIC on a jet before.

Maybe the vast majority do NOW…but 3-4 years ago that was not the case.

I would like to see it become a requirement that any candidate hired at AA has an absolute minimum of 1,000 jet PIC.

https://c.tenor.com/mo2pN_4naMAAAAAC/tenor.gif

Speaking of, how’s the WB thing going?

Any drop info for the April 1 class?

I guess starting on April Fools Day is better than starting on Friday the 13th.

When will classes start back after the summer pause?

DCA/FO/737/I- 2

LAX/FO/737/I- 8

LGA/FO/737/I- 2

MIA/FO/737/I- 4

ORD/FO/737/l- 4

CLT/FO/320/I- 8

DCA/FO/320/l- 1

LAX/FO/320/I- 10

PHL/FO/320/I- 8

LGA/FO/320/D- 6

You're guess is as good as mine

All WB CA positions, of course.

July

/filler

how senior does BOS go? Ultimate goal is MIA 73 but sometimes ladies get in the way.

Helllooooooooo Ladieesssssss

Should be no problem on the first vacancy if it's not offered during indoc.

How long for a friend hired today for a class date?

They are pausing classes in May/June. The last April class is mostly early-mid February CJOs. Assuming they restart classes in July as planned, I’d guess a CJO today would be late July to mid-August.

4/8
 

Mia/fo/737/i- 11
dca/fo/320/i- 5
lax/fo/320/i- 18
mia/fo/320/i- 8
phl/fo/320/i- 4
phx/fo/320/i- 1
lga/fo/320/d- 7

wow a lot of BUS