AMR bankruptcy?
10-03-2011, 07:47 PM
#51
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Dirtdiver
Solyndra's loan process was initiated by the Bush administration.
This New York Times story delves into the details of why the Bush administration put the brakes on the company’s $535 million guarantee and why the Obama administration stepped on the gas with its stimulus program.
10-03-2011, 08:27 PM
#53
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
ding ding ding ding ding!
Now imagine how many are going to dive out on Nov 1.... These guys are diving out with a 100% lump sum pension option too.
For comparison, the DL guys had a 50% lump sum option which did a huge amount of damage in itself.
Now imagine how many are going to dive out on Nov 1.... These guys are diving out with a 100% lump sum pension option too.
For comparison, the DL guys had a 50% lump sum option which did a huge amount of damage in itself.
The 100% lump sum might seem like a good deal for guys bailing out right now but if too many grab it and run and drain the fund too low and then their plan terminates, it might force the govt to come after that money in the name of fairness to other pilots and to protect the PBGC.
Under ERISA the govt can "recapture" any lump sums paid out within the previous 3 years prior to plan termination. 100% lump sums are the whole reason that law exists. The PBGC could very well come after that money to protect itself and the remaining beneficiaries.
29 USC 1345
29 U.S.C. § 1345 : US Code - Section 1345: Recapture of payments
10-04-2011, 03:06 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
ding ding ding ding ding!
Now imagine how many are going to dive out on Nov 1.... These guys are diving out with a 100% lump sum pension option too.
For comparison, the DL guys had a 50% lump sum option which did a huge amount of damage in itself.
Now imagine how many are going to dive out on Nov 1.... These guys are diving out with a 100% lump sum pension option too.
For comparison, the DL guys had a 50% lump sum option which did a huge amount of damage in itself.
A 100% lump sum after 25 years at AA currently produces a lower payment than the 50% lump sum did at Delta.
APA accrues 1.25% after the first year, so at 25 years they get 30% FAE. Delta's was 2.4%, so after 25 years a 50% lump sum was worth 30% FAE. Because APA never had C2K rates, Delta FAE's were substantially higher than current American FAEs.
APA's A plan will still be under tremendous stress due to market returns and the run on the bank. I'll be surprised if it isn't at least frozen at some point in this next contract.
10-04-2011, 03:19 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by slowplay
For info and perspective...
A 100% lump sum after 25 years at AA currently produces a lower payment than the 50% lump sum did at Delta.
APA accrues 1.25% after the first year, so at 25 years they get 30% FAE. Delta's was 2.4%, so after 25 years a 50% lump sum was worth 30% FAE. Because APA never had C2K rates, Delta FAE's were substantially higher than current American FAEs.
APA's A plan will still be under tremendous stress due to market returns and the run on the bank. I'll be surprised if it isn't at least frozen at some point in this next contract.
A 100% lump sum after 25 years at AA currently produces a lower payment than the 50% lump sum did at Delta.
APA accrues 1.25% after the first year, so at 25 years they get 30% FAE. Delta's was 2.4%, so after 25 years a 50% lump sum was worth 30% FAE. Because APA never had C2K rates, Delta FAE's were substantially higher than current American FAEs.
APA's A plan will still be under tremendous stress due to market returns and the run on the bank. I'll be surprised if it isn't at least frozen at some point in this next contract.
With a 100% lump sum option, and 500 guys presently over age 60, and anyone over age 60 able to go at a moment's notice, and talk of an AMR bankruptcy.... De´Ja' Vu'
10-04-2011, 03:32 AM
#58
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
All good points, slow. Also, don't forget their service credit doesn't stop at 25 years, so a guy who keeps flying could potentially end up with 35%-40% FAE. That's why many guys are continuing past age 60.
With a 100% lump sum option, and 500 guys presently over age 60, and anyone over age 60 able to go at a moment's notice, and talk of an AMR bankruptcy.... De´Ja' Vu'
With a 100% lump sum option, and 500 guys presently over age 60, and anyone over age 60 able to go at a moment's notice, and talk of an AMR bankruptcy.... De´Ja' Vu'
You can say that again. What is the kicker is that now that the rest of the airlines are poised for growth the one carrier that has hung in there is going to be the carrier that keeps the rest down.
10-04-2011, 03:34 AM
#59
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FO - 757/767
Posts: 1,228
Originally Posted by Columbia
Didn't realize UT offered honors English classes.
BTW, three errs are on purpose (wink ) no period
10-04-2011, 04:15 AM
#60
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
You can say that again. What is the kicker is that now that the rest of the airlines are poised for growth the one carrier that has hung in there is going to be the carrier that keeps the rest down.
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