Your bankrutpcy claim. If you vote no, your contract will be rejected and you will get no claim. If you vote yes you will get the same contract and you will get to keep 13.5% of your company when it exits. Delta's bankruptcy claim was worth 1.3 billion.

Not necessarily true. The claim is a settlement between AMR and the APA and is a part of the TA. If the TA fails, then it's still possible to get a claim for "damages" (which is what the claim is) via litigation, but the odds are supposedly substantially reduced depending on how Lane would rule and the value he would place on a past ruling.

The question of the value of such a claim which is unknown. Ultimately, if the TA fails, AMR will need a consensual agreement and I can't see them getting one without claim damages for the loss of the A-fund. Even with a claim payout, many believe that isn't worth a decade or more existing under the provisions of this TA. Amortized over a decade as the "bottom feeders of the industry", it would truly amount to scraps for most pilots.

The claim does however fatten up the coffers of the APA and their advisors quite nicely.

Did Delta pilots vote down their deal? How do they know they wouldn't have still gotten their 1.3B claim by voting no? Or an even better amount?

You are falling for the same old fear tactic the union and the pro company pilots are falling for. This thing gets voted down, I have no doubt we'll achieve something better in Round 3. And if we don't, bring on the 1113.... but good luck trying to rebuild a world class airline with all of the labor unrest that will result.

AA Pilots are ready to take a stand and fight. Vote NO!

Also voting NO but under no illusion that something good will come from all this. Voted yes in 03 to save the pension but everything of value is now gone anyway. I hope it will be an overwhelming (80%+) no vote to at least send a strong message..

We had our contract rejected at Mesaba and still got the full bankruptcy claim and full snap back pay. In fact, after bankruptcy was over, we actually got a pay raise out of the deal. If we had accepted management's first proposal we would have taken a 29% pay cut.

Looks like things are lining up for this merger, whether some of you like it or not. Horton is clearly cornered by the creditors and Parker. He stated today that "whatever would be best for the company and it's owners, even if he wasn't the head guy". Any thoughts?

In the case of the NWA flight attendants, the flight attendants had their contract rejected and the judge ruled they had no right to a claim. Eventually, the flight attendants came crawling back to management and they only got a fraction of the claim that the pilots got with the same contract they had voted down three times.

In Mesaba's case, their contract was rejected but the union continued to negotiate and they eventually reached a consensual deal that included a claim.

I am sure that in your case it will be different. American management has a history of caving into labor when they are being difficult, so it's sure that you will get a better deal. I am sure that all the creditors at American will follow your lead and they will all get a better deal just by saying no. That usually happens in a bankrutpcy.

My question to you is what will you gain from your chance at your new better contract and will it be worth more than 13.5 percent of your company. You pretend like you have nothing to lose but history and the law are not on your side.

These are not fear tactics, this is the cold hard reality of bankruptcy. Why would your union try to deceive you? What do they have to gain from it?

As I said in a previous post, I am sure that your union hired experienced bankruptcy attorneys. Listen to them and not some internet blowhard that is living in some fantasy dream that bankrtupcy will bend to their mighty blowhardiness. You will get run over like you read about, and crawling back from that will be painful and costly.

The word is getting out. An initial flurry of "yes" guys are starting to change their tune, probably after actually reading the TA in the meager detail we got it in.

This is by far the most important TA we at AA have ever voted on. Voting YES is a vote for a 6 to 10 year mind-numbing death march of 10,000 contractural cuts into a cesspool of mediocrity.

It's like a tooth ache. Do you want a dull ache in your jaw for 6+ years? Or get the damn thing fixed with perhaps a bit of shorter-termed pain? Remember, anything that happens after the NO vote is not permanent.

The 13.5% thing is as ephemeral as smoke. 13.5% of what? There are no numbers associated with it. Don't let some clown tell you it's 13.5% of AA, because it's not.

Alfaromeo, look above ^^^^^^ what ForeverFO posted. That is exactly spot on.

This thing fails, the company and union renegotiate. I am ready for the full 1113 but I highly doubt it will be imposed. AMR and the judge KNOW they can't run an airline with an 1113 imposed.

Bankruptcy? More like a sham bankruptcy to whack the unions for once and for all. And management uses the fear factor to do the whacking.

Sorry, not falling for it. I don't give a rat's a$$ if we're in BK. I am willing to take a stand and fight for the profession.

So my union recommends voting Yes? What's in it for them, you ask... Simple, the APA leadership has been cozying up to management for 2 years now and they don't want to disappoint. We have weak leadership and it shows.

AA73 I agree with your viewpoint 110 percent. Can u do us a HUGE favor? C & R has new posts about the "Warehouse" meeting. Could you start a new thread and copy/paste for our review? I am not a APA member currently.
Thanks and please keep the news coming. AA pilots will be forever thanksful.