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- - What now? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/american/69577-what-now.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1249424)

Reeeeeeally? Did you know that DAL went thru bankruptcy? Do you know that we had our pensions terminated? Do you realize that we got a payout on those pensions because we took a deal that was much better than the alternative path which you have chosen.

Duuuuh, no I had no idea. :cool:

I don't give a rat's ass what you chose or the reasons and I wouldn't presume to lecture you on them. Time to hit the bricks dude as your arrogance has overshawdowed your relevence. I have no idea why what we are doing upsets you so much and don't care.

Go back to the Delta forum where someone gives a damn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1249424)

As far as the inner workings, you are right, I don't know all the details. I know what is public information, and it is not hard to connect the dots of where the judge is in his thought process. As I said before, I am not trying to convince you of anything, you have to make your own choices based on the information available to you. I am just trying to understand the thought process.

I am well within my element here, but thanks for your condescension nonetheless.

If you want to continue making a nuisance of yourself regarding our situation, knock yourself out. AFAIC, you're bunking in Tomahawks yard now and have zero credibility. Presumptive obnoxiousness breeds condescention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1249426)

I was referring to this post below where he was slamming alfa... not the one you quoted.

You and alfa must be Delta management pilots. That would make your pointless efforts understandable. Say hi to the suits at the water cooler for me. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1249450)

You and alfa must be Delta management pilots. That would make your pointless efforts understandable. Say hi to the suits at the water cooler for me. ;)

No, T is a senior pilot who is stuck in the old way of thinking. That is, you maximize earning at the end of your career to pad you nest egg. Since, it didn't matter what happened as long as you got a seniority number and your company didn't go TU, you won the lottery. Such is not the case these days, and if you want to come close to matching his career earnings, you will probably have to get hired at Delta by age 25 at the latest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1249464)

I see. Sounds like you're saying his concern is that our rejection of the LBFO may harm him more then a ratification would have, i.e. cheaper terms for management under the 1113 puts more potential downward pressure on his future compensation. Yes,...... another pilot thinking only of himself.

Ah well, you can't swing a dead cat over your head without hitting guys like that in this business.

Well then, he'll be dismayed to hear our union is reporting the latest threat from management (I suppose this is the beginning of the "pain" they promised us) is that upon contract abrogation approval, they will go above and beyond their 1113 demands and plan to eliminate any and all present and future pension contributions to pilots, including no retroactive funding of payments missed should a future agreement be forthcoming. NO pension whatsoever for pilots, not even a minimally matched 401(k). Funny.......I assumed that Chapter 11 was NOT to be used as a vehicle to either gain unfair advantage over competitors or as a process to be used as a punitive club against labor. Seems the BK laws are being unilaterally reinterpreted as we speak. :cool:

I guess we'll have to see if judge Lane effectively steps aside and hands his gavel over to the debtor to use to club the pilots into submission with. Crazy times indeed, bruthas...................

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1247722)

After the rejected TA and the judge's ruling, the American pilots should probably reconsider where they are. If any American pilot has not read the ruling they should read it today. From what I read the judge said:

American went bankrupt because their network was too small and they did not have enough feed. This has caused a serious revenue problem as the high value customers are abandoning them. Part of the reorganization will be to increase code sharing and RJ flying to fix that (did you read that Mesabah? Your crew room lawyering is once again shown to be wrong)
He does not care if the APA thinks that merging with US Airways is the best course of action, no merger has been agreed to
The company's witnesses were more credible than the APA's
Under Chapter 11, necessary changes do not mean the minimum to survive, it means enough changes to create a successful company
The APA's theory of "convergence", or that other labor groups would eventually catch up to their costs is not a credible plan of reorganization
Management does not have to lower their cost reduction targets to show good faith bargaining

The creditor's committee just spoke up also. Remember the current owners of the company, the stock holders are getting wiped out. The creditors are going to be the new owners. That is why they have a say about what goes on. This is what they said:

We supported labor getting a claim (ownership stake) in the new AMR, but only if they added value through agreeing to a contract
If the APA does not add any value with a rejection, they will get no ownership
Each day that goes along, value is slipping out of the APA's hands

These are not my words, those are the words of the people who hold your fate in their hands.

The judge's ruling has basically shattered all of the forum ideas about how the APA would prevail. The last and most brain dead forum idea is that American needs them to sign a contract so badly, they will come crawling back to negotiate. This is the most ridiculous statement to date. They don't need you to have a deal, they are getting their own deal sewn up by the judge in about two weeks.

So you have two options:

Agree to a crappy contract that contains a substantial claim in the reorganized American. Just to reiterate, the 13% claim that the Delta pilots got from their bankruptcy netted out to $1,300,000,000. That's a lot of zeroes there.
Accept and even worse contract rejection and get no claim

Financially, there is no choice, Option 1 is the only way to go. Emotionally, if the American pilots feel the need to throw away money in order to make some statement to somebody somewhere, then you can make that choice.

They're not going to be interested in facts or reality Alfa. You have to remember that taken as a group, airline pilots are not that bright. Above average, yes, really smart, no. I used to be involved in pilot hiring and we looked for B average people. Anyone with advanced degrees or a high GPA is going to get bored or cause trouble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beancounter (Post 1249495)

I must have slipped thru the cracks, I graduated Dean's list and am almost done with an advanced degree in accounting.

G

Quote:

Originally Posted by beancounter (Post 1249495)

Pardon me while I go puke. Didn't you go to work for America West? And you want to talk about how smart other pilots are?

Quote:

Originally Posted by beancounter (Post 1249495)

http://goodenoughmother.com/wp-conte...mputer-guy.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by beancounter (Post 1249495)

Yes, the smarter ones will eventually realize how bad they are being ripped off. I mean, once they figure that out, they actually may one day stand up for themselves and demand they be treated fairly. Worse yet, they could flush their ethics and morals down the crapper and sell their souls and everyone else out for the almighty buck by joining the cheese stealers.

God forbid you or any of your flea-bitten, hairless-tailed buddies would have to deal with that though, eh ?

Better to scurry along the baseboards with your stolen cheese and not have to face what you really are. :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by R57 relay (Post 1249500)

Pardon me while I go puke. Didn't you go to work for America West? And you want to talk about how smart other pilots are?

I don't know if he works for us. At first I thought he/she was the same beancounter on usaviation.com and cactuspilot, but it's not. Flame bait?

G