alfaromeo

After the rejected TA and the judge's ruling, the American pilots should probably reconsider where they are. If any American pilot has not read the ruling they should read it today. From what I read the judge said:

• American went bankrupt because their network was too small and they did not have enough feed. This has caused a serious revenue problem as the high value customers are abandoning them. Part of the reorganization will be to increase code sharing and RJ flying to fix that (did you read that Mesabah? Your crew room lawyering is once again shown to be wrong)
• He does not care if the APA thinks that merging with US Airways is the best course of action, no merger has been agreed to
• The company's witnesses were more credible than the APA's
• Under Chapter 11, necessary changes do not mean the minimum to survive, it means enough changes to create a successful company
• The APA's theory of "convergence", or that other labor groups would eventually catch up to their costs is not a credible plan of reorganization
• Management does not have to lower their cost reduction targets to show good faith bargaining

The creditor's committee just spoke up also. Remember the current owners of the company, the stock holders are getting wiped out. The creditors are going to be the new owners. That is why they have a say about what goes on. This is what they said:

• We supported labor getting a claim (ownership stake) in the new AMR, but only if they added value through agreeing to a contract
• If the APA does not add any value with a rejection, they will get no ownership
• Each day that goes along, value is slipping out of the APA's hands

These are not my words, those are the words of the people who hold your fate in their hands.


The judge's ruling has basically shattered all of the forum ideas about how the APA would prevail. The last and most brain dead forum idea is that American needs them to sign a contract so badly, they will come crawling back to negotiate. This is the most ridiculous statement to date. They don't need you to have a deal, they are getting their own deal sewn up by the judge in about two weeks.


So you have two options:

1. Agree to a crappy contract that contains a substantial claim in the reorganized American. Just to reiterate, the 13% claim that the Delta pilots got from their bankruptcy netted out to $1,300,000,000. That's a lot of zeroes there.
2. Accept and even worse contract rejection and get no claim

Financially, there is no choice, Option 1 is the only way to go. Emotionally, if the American pilots feel the need to throw away money in order to make some statement to somebody somewhere, then you can make that choice.

80ktsClamp

There you have it, folks. alfa has told you exactly what's going on and what your choices are. It's official now.

babs

Kind of difficult to run an airline without pilots, or ticked off ones for that matter. We shall see how things play out, but I am proud of them for standing up to incompetent management.

MayDaze

Ooooooo, I bet you guys are scared now!!!! So scary.

nwa757

This is the typical mainline pilot look at things.... outsource more "feed" and all will be fine.

Are you aware that sometimes a 757 "feeds" an A330... or a MD88 feeds a 737?

What is "feed" ? By definition of 50% of the pilots in this country, it's an RJ pilot paycheck that can barely "feed" a family.... let's create more of those jobs in order to save American. That's the way.

eaglefly

Have to disagree with the squirrely little sports cars assessment and advice. This isn't Delta management we're dealing with, but instead a completely different ethical standard from them. First of all, the 13.5% claim is an undetermined amount and may be nowhere near the Delta figure. Secondly, it is AMR that gets to decide the form of compensation of that claim and many agree it would be stock, not cash. Even if cash, after being heavily taxed and divided over the life of what could easily be a decade long sentence of hell like the UAL pilots have lived with, it would add up for most pilots a very small monthy boost.

Since many pilots can expect a 100% pay cut via furlough and many others still drastic reductions in compensation as a result of downgrades due to massive outsourcing, the 13.5% claim is an example of a bad auto lease claiming no money down, but devistating on the details and on the back end. Other common references could be "sham", "con" and "sucker punch". No, I think it's safe to say while it would be better then not having one, the claim isn't worth the price being asked to pay for it.

I think most of us know that this BK is a sham and the game is hopelessly rigged against us. Therefore, I and many others expect Lane to abrogate in the very near future. As one management type claimed, it will indeed be "uncertainty and pain" and likely not just the pilots. But, sooner or later, this BK will run its course and it will transition to a different arena and a different game. THAT is likely when any changes will occur. IMO, once clear of BK and the pilots having been likely existing in a state of tyranny for many months, I think many will move on and attrition will escalate to a hundred to perhaps several hundred/month. May 2013 is the 18 month limit that AMR has to be clear of BK by and that will coincide perfectly with the dawn of a heavy summer flying requirement and potentially a concurrent high attrition rate similar to the level that force AMR to play their BK card months early in November 2011.

When those two situations collide, there's going to be a lot of deaf ears among those pilots still hanging around AA should sobbing, crying and begging be heard from other directions. The worse conditions get, I think the more will leave and it will be catch-22. What's happening now is simply more of kicking the can and limping along. Unfortunately, it will be the current creditors and future management and shareholders that will have this tossed in their lap and I don't think many of them realize it won't matter to pilots who have been abused to this degree how bad their pain is then.

I don't think many of them are really looking that far forward and realizing the downside of continuing, advocating or assisting in this level of attack on pilots that very shortly may really have little left to lose and are too old to take the punches anymore. At that point, whomever is in charge of what may likely be a madhouse will have to fork over some serious bucks to stop the bleeding. You'd think the creditors would be concerned about this, but perhaps they've been listening to the limping can kickers so long, they've stopped thinking ?

Just my .02 on this ever tightening graveyard spiral of a BK process and what could be an unforeseen, but likely aftermath.

Vortexxx

T-Hawk, is that you?
Horton is calling you for his coffee!

alfaromeo

This is from the judge's ruling (they are not contiguous paragraphs, just quotes):

The March 21 Proposal would allow American’s regional partners to fly aircraft with a maximum of 88 seats and a MTOW of 114,500 pounds. (AA Ex. 918). The maximum number of regional jets of 51 to 88 seats would be capped at the greater of 255 or 50% of the total number of mainline aircraft in use at the time. (AA Ex. 918; American’s APA Motion at 23 n.18). The maximum number of regional jets of 50 seats or less would remain at 110% of the narrow body aircraft flown at the mainline at the time. (AA Ex. 918). Additionally, the distinction between owned and non-owned commuter carriers would be eliminated—all would be operated as if owned. (AA Ex. 918). Based on current fleet size, the APA calculates that the March 21 Proposal would permit the Company to use 536 regional jets of up to 50 seats and 304 regional jets of 51 to 88 seats. (Eaton Decl. ¶ 25). The APA’s primary objection relates to the use of the larger regional jets.

The Court finds, therefore, that American has shown that the request in the March 21 Proposal is reasonable and necessary when compared to its network competitors.

This is a comparison between the TA the American pilots voted down and what there new working conditions will be if they let the judge rule:



So you can yell at me all you want. I am just the weatherman, you can scream at me for telling you that it is raining, or you can go find an umbrella. If this fight is about RJ's the choice is pretty stark. The TA had terms much more favorable to the American pilots than the judges ruling will be. Read his decision, let me know how you think this will go.

Little children can hurl insults on this forum all day. Let me know how that works for you in the real world.

tsquare

Another interesting sidenote was that the judge said that AMR decided to freeze, rather than terminate the pension plans, which will result in significant cost to the company. Additionally, he also said that the matter of pensions are not before the court. Draw your own conclusions about that. This ruling, and the one to come are only concerned with the pilots' contract, not the retirement plan.

Doug Masters

Is that you Moak?