Fleet basing post merger
 

Looks like airplanes will start to move around within 6 months of the POR. Any guesses as to what basing changes we might see right off the bat?

MIA 330 seems likely. PHL 763? CLT 738? DFW/ORD with US 320 crews?

I vote US crews on an Airbus in ORD!!

Which ones will most likely be new hire bases?

Why does it look like planes will be moving around within POR+6mo? What are you basing this off of?

Personally, I'm hoping they bring the -800 to CLT.

I'm praying for a US-Staffed DFW Airbus base.

MIA A319, I'm coming with. I95 south will be my only commute.

You and me, both.....

Or just do what DL/NW did: No fences on narrow-body F/Os.

From our APA website a press release form the company called stitching the airlines together, referenced POR Aug 31 2013 plus 6 months and plus 1 year. At plus 1 year single operating certificate and then able to "right size" routes with aircraft.

The only fences DAL had at all was on the 777/747.... and IMHO, those were a complete waste of time. The only ones that have been "protected" are the uber senior, and none of them would have gone anywhere anyway. Free advice... and you know what it is worth... rip off the bandaid, and get on with it.

When Parker first started wooing the AA pilots, didn't he promise them a seven-year fence?

Did that ever make it into writing in the final MOU?

If so, that would suggest that any AA aircraft put into a US base (like the -800 into PHL example above) would have to be flown by AA pilots, right? And vice versa.

I suppose the work-around would be to just have AA pilots from existing AA domiciles RON in the US bases from which those AA aircraft would operate.

Even before any fences exist, seems to me like planes are going to start moving around, with their respective pilots flying them. Isn't that whats going on at United right now?

"Within six months, the two hope to start moving their planes around, matching the size of the plane with the demand on a route."

American Airlines, US Airways Reveal Merger Plans - The Middle Seat Terminal - WSJ

NO fences at all.

There will be widebody fences.

Probably wide body only. I'm pretty sure that's what Delta and Northwest did, fenced the 747, 777 and 330.

I don't think they fenced the 330. Only the 747 and 777.

747 and 777 only.

I heard theres going to be a PHL 320 base staffed with west crews.

Airbuses in LA! My hope anyway :p

I heard a rumor that the airbus deliveries on the American side have been halted for a couple of months while they figure out the fleet plan.

I haven't heard that. I believe Aug 31 or Sept 1 is first pax flights. They are currently training for the A319. And filling advanced vacancies training May, June, July and Aug.

I thought all Westies were being displaced to Anchorage for the new E190 shuttle? :) No dog in this fight just going for humor......

Jokes aside, anyone have any actual educated guesses of what's going to happen?

2 seperate carriers until 11 exit and then gradual mixing and melting. Prolly be 1Q14 before that occurs. Start with gate/route sharing (crew fly through) and eventual slot mixing. Each carrier and their respective fleets will stay with their pilots until SLI, prolly sometime in the last half of 2015. Wide body fences for each carriers pilots of 5 years and perhaps up to 7. More E-190's added to AA fleet and likely see those at ORD.

Parker could have mentioned that 7 year fences may be an appropriate solution, but emphasis must be placed on may—no one, not even APA is dedicating to fences at this point:

https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/...atest-QAs.aspx
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/...atest-QAs.aspx
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/...tegration.aspx
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/...f-the-MOU.aspx
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/...tegration.aspx

SLI will not be implemented for at least 2.3-2.5 years—this is already a fence of sorts. How much more of a fence do some APA/USAPA pilots think they need? NWA had fences for an extended period, which hurt commuters and extended grievances 20 years down the road.

It is much more efficient and profitable for merged airlines to minimize fences. USAPA/APA pilots should seek every opportunity to avoid fences.

Many commuters will gain tremendous quality of life improvements by being able to transfer across fleets. Imagine the amount of time families across the newAmerican pilot group would recoup!

My personal opinion is that any merger should have wide body fences that are limited to 3 years and no fences should be established for narrow body aircraft. The net effect is a 5+ year fence from today with maximum consideration for the company and commuters.

newAmerican is scheduled to grow in Asia/Africa/Oceania and combines carrier retirements far outpace DAL/UAL in the near term. What more do you really need?

I agree wholeheartedly!! However, many US East pilots are TERRIFIED that they might lose even a single speck of advancement for even a single day in what is left of their careers (especially those, and there are many, who are less than 10 years from 65) to anyone else. Frankly, this concern is no small consideration in the entire Nicolau dispute, which has resulted in a de facto 7 year fence (during which we've had no shortage of transcontinental commuters in both East and West domiciles!) at US.

Frankly, I think that reading most of the recent arbitration decisions is highly informative to what our eventual list will look like. Minimal widebody fences and a ratioed integration of some variety. DOH, long-term fences, and significant C&Rs haven't been used to integrate pilots since Northwest-Republic, and the results of that list proved to be an enforcement nightmare.

Well, without fences a large number of junior west pilots (as well as East F/O's) could pole-vault directly to AA's wide bodies in both seats over long-time native AA F/O's and even some narrowbody captains in a finely feathered percentile SLI. That would seem to be a windfall. To minimize or eliminate fences, the arbitrators would have to do a more coarsly feathered SLI, with "chunks" of various AA/East/West pilots.

I understand some at U are drooling uncontrollably at the thougt of unobstructed access to AA's larger wide body fleet and future options, but again, that would seem a windfall. One could make a similar argument for narrowbody captains seats as well and arguing that a benefit of domicile convenience should override that is misguided IMO. Another option would be a "TTC" (Time-to-Captain) and an "EWA" (Expected Widebody Access) formula that could adopted to quantify each pilots career progression expectation to those poitions at time of merge (based on his/her carriers orders/options) and that would modify HOW finely the feathering of the merged list would go, so as not to provide a windfall for any sub-segment of pilots.

Thats just because of their age. Nothing to do with AA.

Fleet basing post merger
 

So when could a junior F/O either side AA/US expect a narrow body upgrade? Realistically...?

Everyone at US can expect NB upgrade in 5 years. Access to widebody within 3.

I think eaglefly might be sorely disappointed with his suggested SLI methods. ;)

This is correct:

a319 upgrade may drop to 5 years soon.

e190 upgrade may drop to 2 years soon.

There it is, I was wondering how long it would take before the BS started. I haven't seen anyone drooling over your stuff. Along with it comes JFK, DFW, ORD and MIA. Yea!

With all the BS that is being posted. Here is some more:
USAPA for starters should show a copy of the TWA staple arguments. The reasoning for the staple was "TWA was a failing carrier and belongs on the bottom." AA is now the failing carrier and the AWA pilots rescued them. Because AWA rescued them they deserve super seniority.
DOH with fences maybe looking better all the time.

Good to see someone has the official word. Now all you have to do is send a certified letter to Parker and the APA. :rolleyes:

LOL !

Just ran through this thread from the start and count a half dozen alone right here. Don't worry though, when the Nic hits the table in arbitration, it prolly won't hurt you too bad. ;)

Fences go both ways. One problem with them is that it looks like there may be massive amounts of equipment shifts with this merger. I don't care if I fly an A320 now, and then an A330/A350 someday(what we brought) or a 737-800 now and a 777/787 someday(what you bring), BUT I want to do it in CLT and not DFW, ORD, JFK or MIA.

I don't think you can make proclamations about fences until you see what the SLI looks like. Then the fences should prohibit anyone from getting a windfall at the expense of others. Something Nic didn't do.

And BTW, starting the SLI with AA with the Nic wouldn't hurt me too bad. Sorry to disappoint.

Pilots never learn from their mistakes. Crap like "drooling" needs to be left our of the discussion because I'm not drooling over any bases or equipment you guys brought to the merger. I'd be just happy with the progression I would have at US, Nic or not. All comments like that do is make the business of a SLI personal.

Said Ed Colodny to new hire class in 1989....

Where is an 89 hire now?

On their Third wife