Flaws Found in DOJ Lawsuit
09-05-2013 | 11:17 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 66
From: MD-11 FO
pilotpayne, you disregarded the fact that taking slots away form newAA in DCA may not increase competition, but may just reshuffle direct routes away from DCA to already served markets. I personally think its idiotic to limit direct air service to our capital city.
I don't see how you'd know what Parker did or should have done, but I would imagine he ran some kind of analysis and found litigation the more value advantageous method or moving this merger forward. newAA is a minority player in the DC market in terms of total number of flights and total number of seats. newAA is well within it's right to contest the DOJ and seek to preserve as much of it's operations as it can manage to retain. Parker must have a strong case for him to hardline the DOJ and risk a legal dispute.
Parker may just be playing poker and so far he seems to have a decent hand to play.
I don't see how you'd know what Parker did or should have done, but I would imagine he ran some kind of analysis and found litigation the more value advantageous method or moving this merger forward. newAA is a minority player in the DC market in terms of total number of flights and total number of seats. newAA is well within it's right to contest the DOJ and seek to preserve as much of it's operations as it can manage to retain. Parker must have a strong case for him to hardline the DOJ and risk a legal dispute.
Parker may just be playing poker and so far he seems to have a decent hand to play.
09-05-2013 | 12:28 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,274
Likes: 55
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
pilotpayne, you disregarded the fact that taking slots away form newAA in DCA may not increase competition, but may just reshuffle direct routes away from DCA to already served markets. I personally think its idiotic to limit direct air service to our capital city.
I don't see how you'd know what Parker did or should have done, but I would imagine he ran some kind of analysis and found litigation the more value advantageous method or moving this merger forward. newAA is a minority player in the DC market in terms of total number of flights and total number of seats. newAA is well within it's right to contest the DOJ and seek to preserve as much of it's operations as it can manage to retain. Parker must have a strong case for him to hardline the DOJ and risk a legal dispute.
Parker may just be playing poker and so far he seems to have a decent hand to play.
I don't see how you'd know what Parker did or should have done, but I would imagine he ran some kind of analysis and found litigation the more value advantageous method or moving this merger forward. newAA is a minority player in the DC market in terms of total number of flights and total number of seats. newAA is well within it's right to contest the DOJ and seek to preserve as much of it's operations as it can manage to retain. Parker must have a strong case for him to hardline the DOJ and risk a legal dispute.
Parker may just be playing poker and so far he seems to have a decent hand to play.
1 Refuse to give up slots
2 Know that the DOJ will block it.
3 go to court with a strong case
4 beat the DOJ and keep all the slots?
Wow if that was his plan he is one smart guy.(I do think he is smart)
He knew from the start DCA slots would be important thats why he went on and on about direct service and all that.
Look guys you have to play the game I hope you guys do merge its better for all airlines and unless Blue opens a base in DCA I could care less if we get more slots.
Just don't act like Airways is protecting DCA and saving all the people there money. He does not want to give up any slots and even more to the point Airways wants as little compition out of DCA as thy can get so no they don't want the lcc's flying more shuttle flight or flights to FL. You can keep saying that the new AA will be a minority player in the DC market all you want but it comes down to is DCA is the only SLOT RESTRICTED airport in the area which the new AA would have an almost total lock on. If this was not the case than Parker wouldn't care about the slots.
And to lolwut
Why shouldn't they? They've acquired these assets over time, just like all the other airlines have acquired assets that help them further their business.
They use them to operate a hub. Having a significant portion of the flights out of an airport is just that, a hub. And a hub requires a minimum threshold to be profitable. You can't just chop away at it every time someone wants something. They have a competitive advantage there, just like other airlines have competitive advantages at other airports.
Its slot controlled......they have a competitive advantage because its slot controlled.....what do you not understand.
If it was dfw or den or clt nobody would care but if a new player can't get access its a problem. So lets say Delta buys jetBlue should they give up jfk slots or just be allowed to stick it to every passenger that wants to go to jfk because they own almost all the slots?
Like I said its nothing personal but I know by living in the dc area its all about DCA maybe when the train gets to IAD that might change but its all DCA.
And once more I hope you guys an pull it off its GOOD for jetBlue and for every other airline out there.....
09-05-2013 | 12:58 PM
#14
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
So you are telling me this was Parkers plan all along?
1 Refuse to give up slots
2 Know that the DOJ will block it.
3 go to court with a strong case
4 beat the DOJ and keep all the slots?
Wow if that was his plan he is one smart guy.(I do think he is smart)
He knew from the start DCA slots would be important thats why he went on and on about direct service and all that.
Look guys you have to play the game I hope you guys do merge its better for all airlines and unless Blue opens a base in DCA I could care less if we get more slots.
Just don't act like Airways is protecting DCA and saving all the people there money. He does not want to give up any slots and even more to the point Airways wants as little compition out of DCA as thy can get so no they don't want the lcc's flying more shuttle flight or flights to FL. You can keep saying that the new AA will be a minority player in the DC market all you want but it comes down to is DCA is the only SLOT RESTRICTED airport in the area which the new AA would have an almost total lock on. If this was not the case than Parker wouldn't care about the slots.
And to lolwut
Why shouldn't they? They've acquired these assets over time, just like all the other airlines have acquired assets that help them further their business.
They use them to operate a hub. Having a significant portion of the flights out of an airport is just that, a hub. And a hub requires a minimum threshold to be profitable. You can't just chop away at it every time someone wants something. They have a competitive advantage there, just like other airlines have competitive advantages at other airports.
Its slot controlled......they have a competitive advantage because its slot controlled.....what do you not understand.
If it was dfw or den or clt nobody would care but if a new player can't get access its a problem. So lets say Delta buys jetBlue should they give up jfk slots or just be allowed to stick it to every passenger that wants to go to jfk because they own almost all the slots?
Like I said its nothing personal but I know by living in the dc area its all about DCA maybe when the train gets to IAD that might change but its all DCA.
And once more I hope you guys an pull it off its GOOD for jetBlue and for every other airline out there.....
1 Refuse to give up slots
2 Know that the DOJ will block it.
3 go to court with a strong case
4 beat the DOJ and keep all the slots?
Wow if that was his plan he is one smart guy.(I do think he is smart)
He knew from the start DCA slots would be important thats why he went on and on about direct service and all that.
Look guys you have to play the game I hope you guys do merge its better for all airlines and unless Blue opens a base in DCA I could care less if we get more slots.
Just don't act like Airways is protecting DCA and saving all the people there money. He does not want to give up any slots and even more to the point Airways wants as little compition out of DCA as thy can get so no they don't want the lcc's flying more shuttle flight or flights to FL. You can keep saying that the new AA will be a minority player in the DC market all you want but it comes down to is DCA is the only SLOT RESTRICTED airport in the area which the new AA would have an almost total lock on. If this was not the case than Parker wouldn't care about the slots.
And to lolwut
Why shouldn't they? They've acquired these assets over time, just like all the other airlines have acquired assets that help them further their business.
They use them to operate a hub. Having a significant portion of the flights out of an airport is just that, a hub. And a hub requires a minimum threshold to be profitable. You can't just chop away at it every time someone wants something. They have a competitive advantage there, just like other airlines have competitive advantages at other airports.
Its slot controlled......they have a competitive advantage because its slot controlled.....what do you not understand.
If it was dfw or den or clt nobody would care but if a new player can't get access its a problem. So lets say Delta buys jetBlue should they give up jfk slots or just be allowed to stick it to every passenger that wants to go to jfk because they own almost all the slots?
Like I said its nothing personal but I know by living in the dc area its all about DCA maybe when the train gets to IAD that might change but its all DCA.
And once more I hope you guys an pull it off its GOOD for jetBlue and for every other airline out there.....
09-05-2013 | 01:08 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,274
Likes: 55
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
09-05-2013 | 01:14 PM
#16
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Joined: Oct 2012
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From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Just so I don't contradict myself...
I am all for free market no slots any merger but if the goverment is going to make an airport slot controlled they should not let one airline have a super majority of slots.
I am all for free market no slots any merger but if the goverment is going to make an airport slot controlled they should not let one airline have a super majority of slots.
09-05-2013 | 02:03 PM
#18
Flies With The Hat On
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,339
Likes: 0
From: Right of the Left Seat
So you are telling me this was Parkers plan all along?
1 Refuse to give up slots
2 Know that the DOJ will block it.
3 go to court with a strong case
4 beat the DOJ and keep all the slots?
Wow if that was his plan he is one smart guy.(I do think he is smart)
He knew from the start DCA slots would be important thats why he went on and on about direct service and all that.
Look guys you have to play the game I hope you guys do merge its better for all airlines and unless Blue opens a base in DCA I could care less if we get more slots.
Just don't act like Airways is protecting DCA and saving all the people there money. He does not want to give up any slots and even more to the point Airways wants as little compition out of DCA as thy can get so no they don't want the lcc's flying more shuttle flight or flights to FL. You can keep saying that the new AA will be a minority player in the DC market all you want but it comes down to is DCA is the only SLOT RESTRICTED airport in the area which the new AA would have an almost total lock on. If this was not the case than Parker wouldn't care about the slots.
And to lolwut
Why shouldn't they? They've acquired these assets over time, just like all the other airlines have acquired assets that help them further their business.
They use them to operate a hub. Having a significant portion of the flights out of an airport is just that, a hub. And a hub requires a minimum threshold to be profitable. You can't just chop away at it every time someone wants something. They have a competitive advantage there, just like other airlines have competitive advantages at other airports.
Its slot controlled......they have a competitive advantage because its slot controlled.....what do you not understand.
If it was dfw or den or clt nobody would care but if a new player can't get access its a problem. So lets say Delta buys jetBlue should they give up jfk slots or just be allowed to stick it to every passenger that wants to go to jfk because they own almost all the slots?
Like I said its nothing personal but I know by living in the dc area its all about DCA maybe when the train gets to IAD that might change but its all DCA.
And once more I hope you guys an pull it off its GOOD for jetBlue and for every other airline out there.....
1 Refuse to give up slots
2 Know that the DOJ will block it.
3 go to court with a strong case
4 beat the DOJ and keep all the slots?
Wow if that was his plan he is one smart guy.(I do think he is smart)
He knew from the start DCA slots would be important thats why he went on and on about direct service and all that.
Look guys you have to play the game I hope you guys do merge its better for all airlines and unless Blue opens a base in DCA I could care less if we get more slots.
Just don't act like Airways is protecting DCA and saving all the people there money. He does not want to give up any slots and even more to the point Airways wants as little compition out of DCA as thy can get so no they don't want the lcc's flying more shuttle flight or flights to FL. You can keep saying that the new AA will be a minority player in the DC market all you want but it comes down to is DCA is the only SLOT RESTRICTED airport in the area which the new AA would have an almost total lock on. If this was not the case than Parker wouldn't care about the slots.
And to lolwut
Why shouldn't they? They've acquired these assets over time, just like all the other airlines have acquired assets that help them further their business.
They use them to operate a hub. Having a significant portion of the flights out of an airport is just that, a hub. And a hub requires a minimum threshold to be profitable. You can't just chop away at it every time someone wants something. They have a competitive advantage there, just like other airlines have competitive advantages at other airports.
Its slot controlled......they have a competitive advantage because its slot controlled.....what do you not understand.
If it was dfw or den or clt nobody would care but if a new player can't get access its a problem. So lets say Delta buys jetBlue should they give up jfk slots or just be allowed to stick it to every passenger that wants to go to jfk because they own almost all the slots?
Like I said its nothing personal but I know by living in the dc area its all about DCA maybe when the train gets to IAD that might change but its all DCA.
And once more I hope you guys an pull it off its GOOD for jetBlue and for every other airline out there.....
Everything else I've said so far has been reasonable supposition on my part.
---
Going forward, I dont think anyone in this thread has acted like we're "saving all the people money." newAA would however be able to save more people people time (which some regard as money) through more direct service to and from DCA than other carrier would be able to. It is important to remember pilotpayne that the cost of flying is still cheaper than it was 15 years ago.
Alcoholism aside, Parker is an incredibly intelligent person. He saved both AWE and USAir from the edge of their bankruptcies amid 911, rebuilt the airlines network and ran up Delta's merger costs by 2 billion dollars! I am certainly impressed with Parker's ambition to challenge the DOJ. Those certainly are things I could never accomplish sober!
It is true new AA would have a "lock" on DCA, which reminds me of Delta's lock in ATL, DTW, MSP and SLC, United's lock in EWR, IAH, IAD and GUM, and Southwest's lock in HOB, LUV, MDW, OAK and BWI. newAA having a 67% percent of flight operations in DCA is not beyond industry norms at other airports. And while those airports are not slotted, you must consider that Airways only has only 55% control of physical seating capacity at DCA. If someone wants to compete with newAA for Washington, DC traffic they can introduce more service to IAD and BWI.
This is a comprehensive subject and I think its perfectly okay for people to have different perspectives. I do accept your rationalization, but I don't agree with it.
Try not to get too worked up pilotpayne. Okay?
09-05-2013 | 03:10 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,274
Likes: 55
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
No, all I've told you with absolutely certainty is that "you disregarded the fact that taking slots away form newAA in DCA may not increase competition, but may just reshuffle direct routes away from DCA to already served markets."
Everything else I've said so far has been reasonable supposition on my part.
---
Going forward, I dont think anyone in this thread has acted like we're "saving all the people money." newAA would however be able to save more people people time (which some regard as money) through more direct service to and from DCA than other carrier would be able to. It is important to remember pilotpayne that the cost of flying is still cheaper than it was 15 years ago.
Alcoholism aside, Parker is an incredibly intelligent person. He saved both AWE and USAir from the edge of their bankruptcies amid 911, rebuilt the airlines network and ran up Delta's merger costs by 2 billion dollars! I am certainly impressed with Parker's ambition to challenge the DOJ. Those certainly are things I could never accomplish sober!
It is true new AA would have a "lock" on DCA, which reminds me of Delta's lock in ATL, DTW, MSP and SLC, United's lock in EWR, IAH, IAD and GUM, and Southwest's lock in HOB, LUV, MDW, OAK and BWI. newAA having a 67% percent of flight operations in DCA is not beyond industry norms at other airports. And while those airports are not slotted, you must consider that Airways only has only 55% control of physical seating capacity at DCA. If someone wants to compete with newAA for Washington, DC traffic they can introduce more service to IAD and BWI.
This is a comprehensive subject and I think its perfectly okay for people to have different perspectives. I do accept your rationalization, but I don't agree with it.
Try not to get too worked up pilotpayne. Okay?
Everything else I've said so far has been reasonable supposition on my part.
---
Going forward, I dont think anyone in this thread has acted like we're "saving all the people money." newAA would however be able to save more people people time (which some regard as money) through more direct service to and from DCA than other carrier would be able to. It is important to remember pilotpayne that the cost of flying is still cheaper than it was 15 years ago.
Alcoholism aside, Parker is an incredibly intelligent person. He saved both AWE and USAir from the edge of their bankruptcies amid 911, rebuilt the airlines network and ran up Delta's merger costs by 2 billion dollars! I am certainly impressed with Parker's ambition to challenge the DOJ. Those certainly are things I could never accomplish sober!
It is true new AA would have a "lock" on DCA, which reminds me of Delta's lock in ATL, DTW, MSP and SLC, United's lock in EWR, IAH, IAD and GUM, and Southwest's lock in HOB, LUV, MDW, OAK and BWI. newAA having a 67% percent of flight operations in DCA is not beyond industry norms at other airports. And while those airports are not slotted, you must consider that Airways only has only 55% control of physical seating capacity at DCA. If someone wants to compete with newAA for Washington, DC traffic they can introduce more service to IAD and BWI.
This is a comprehensive subject and I think its perfectly okay for people to have different perspectives. I do accept your rationalization, but I don't agree with it.
Try not to get too worked up pilotpayne. Okay?
Ok fly.
You are taking this personally.....
"saving all the people money." I am talking about an airline and Doug Parkers pitch to keep the slots not about you.
"you disregarded the fact that taking slots away form newAA in DCA may not increase competition, but may just reshuffle direct routes away from DCA to already served markets."
I think you mean increase service. Giving jetblue or any airline slots would very much increase compition....would it add service to alb or cak no but it would add compition to routes flown by Airways hence why they don't want to give them up(neither would I) and its up to Airways how they want to use them.
55% control of physical seating capacity at DCA
Its the slots.....if you want more seats add bigger planes there are a ton of crj's dash8s and emb170's there....I know I use to fly them.
Washington, DC traffic they can introduce more service to IAD and BWI.
So why is it this has not really happened?
Jetblue is not the only airline that wants slots Southwest Air Canada and others would like some.
In the end its not up to me or you.
As I said I would like the airlines to merge but not have a lock on DCA
It is true new AA would have a "lock" you said it yourself.
I am sorry but I don't agree with this, if it was not a slot controlled airport fine....ie.... if this was happening at IAD I would be fine with it but DCA is different.
No emotion just my opinion which means absolutely nothing.
This is a comprehensive subject and I think its perfectly okay for people to have different perspectives. I do accept your rationalization, but I don't agree with it. Thank you I will sleep better tonight....
09-05-2013 | 03:15 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,274
Likes: 55
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Alcoholism aside, Parker is an incredibly intelligent person. He saved both AWE and USAir from the edge of their bankruptcies amid 911, rebuilt the airlines network and ran up Delta's merger costs by 2 billion dollars! I am certainly impressed with Parker's ambition to challenge the DOJ. Those certainly are things I could never accomplish sober!
Like I said I think he is smart as well. His ambition to challenge the DOJ,
what else would he do? If he wins score if he dosen't he is right back to where he started. That is a really easy choice....challenge the DOJ.
I have no problem with him working inside the system and if he wins good for him and you and the newAA.
Like I said I think he is smart as well. His ambition to challenge the DOJ,
what else would he do? If he wins score if he dosen't he is right back to where he started. That is a really easy choice....challenge the DOJ.
I have no problem with him working inside the system and if he wins good for him and you and the newAA.
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