Way to go...
+1

This. How about tonight we drink, tomorrow we we resume our regularly scheduled monkey sh!t fight?

you could have been making the mou money all along, instead you voted usapa in and lost the whole pilot group $650 million
I will never forget what you scumbags have done, I'll proudly wear my cactus pin while working to make things better for the pilot group, you east guys can go jump off a bridge.
Amen.

[QUOTE=cactiboss;1518894]you could have been making the mou money all along, instead you voted usapa in and lost the whole pilot group $650 million
I will never forget what you scumbags have done, I'll proudly wear my cactus pin while working to make things better for the pilot group, you east guys can go jump off a bridge.
Amen.[/QUOT

Oh, one more thing...and I am not trying to stir the pot or play peacemaker because I have not walked in your or anyone else's shoes in this process. The "pilot group" here at AA is not now or has ever been homogenious on any topic, contract or otherwise. IMO, representation has been fragmented since day one (post deregulation). So you can proudly do or wear whatever you want to set you apart, and you'll see many doing the same on the line, stickers, pins, no hats, etc. etc. all for different causes. The venting that goes on under our union web site is relentless...folks that have been wronged or think they have been wronged never ends. For the better or worse, we are probably the most american of US carriers because we can't agree on much. And the bigger we get, and we've been the biggest before, the more chaotic things become. I don't think adding 2 or 3 thousand new voices to the mix will change that, we've already got ten thousand plus opinions on how things should be. Frankly, the best I can humbly recommend is do your job well and then go home. Aggravation with even the most well intentioned grudge contradicts that. Your choice of course, but when the fences come down, you won't know east from west, native from non. One big disfuntional family and never a dull moment.

Believe me, no one that has been around expects this to be a panacea. What we have here is an opportunity to take the career back to what it use to be and with it a chance at a more stable and lucrative career, that's it. *****ing and moaning have always been part of the profession, heck look at Dal with the Dpa movement, some things will never change. Now the east/west battle is unprecedented in this industry, nothing short of scabing can compare to what they have done. Stealing the wests representation and attempting to impose a seniority lis after the fact while holding a contract hostage. If you are AA just ask your reps what it has been like to deal with them in the mou/pbs discussions so far. Oh and I guarantee you haven't seen anything yet from these clowns, heck they just sued to overturn yet another binding arbitration they lost right after spending $7 million trying to sue the pbgc for a pension termination they themselves caused, crazy.

An apt statement, since I fear you won't be able to move on. You could've stopped with the quote above. Instead, congrats on polluting a nice, upbeat thread about news we've been looking forward to for a long time.

I can picture you in the cockpit ten years from now, still causing the other pilots' eyes to roll back in their heads as you recount your tale of woe. Violin background music blaring from your cell phone as you go though your soliloquy.

No, you weren't the first to bring up USAPA on this thread, but you made sure you were the most regressive and offensive.

Apologies to all for the distraction and sincerely - Congrats to ALL.

Capt H

You are one warped dude. I'm all ears, how did we CAUSE our pension termination? Our MEC voted to terminate it because they were told we weren't coming out of Chp 11 with it(ever heard of a pension being frozen?), but CAUSE it to be terminated? You really should do some research. Of course you never had one, so what the big deal, right? It is all about you.

bwaahahahahahahahha:d

btw, stoked for the merger!

For all you investors out there, here is a good article:

US Airways Group Inc (LCC): The New American Airlines Is On - Seeking Alpha

Please post more often. I don't really care what you say, just need the avatar to make frequent appearances.

Thanks.

Damn, I couldn't see that on my iphone. Good old commuter days, when you could talk a naive 19 yr old FA to get naked in the cockpit.

Sounds good!!

Well thankfully the FA's are wiser now and all of your yammering just makes her want to blow her brains out-

Ask and you shall receive!

Hopefully next time I can get her to turn around!

Don't know about wiser, can't remember last time I had a crew under 60/200

It was only a matter of time and slot divestures. Congrats and enjoy the ride. I'm getting my popcorn. :D

Like anyone in their right mind would enjoy your company, you miserable f...

:):) for the merger.

R57 threw you an Olive Branch and you kick him in the teeth, how many ex-wives do you have?

He can stick that olive branch where the sun don't shine, you too.

I am not at all disappointed and I apologize if I gave that impression. I was simply pointing out just where I thought my colleague may have been heading with his comment.

To be clear this is not an APA issue but rather one between old school east and AWA pilots. APA, TWA, Third list Airways are not involved in that particular issue.

Thank you for the warm welcome and I send my most humble regards in your direction as well.

WD at AWA

Hopefully they (ex-wives) knew about the naked 19 year old(s) before the assets were split.

Ew ew, tell him you hope he get's in a car wreck on his way to work, that's always a good one. :eek:

Ready fire aim. Its the Hallmark of this administration. If they were going to settle for this the DOJ shouldn't have wasted everyone's time and Parker's money.

OFFICIAL: Suit Settled, Merger to Happen.
 

FlyingKat! Welcome to the party! I was wondering when you were going to show up as you were one of the vocal ones who seemed so excited about the suit. In fact, I remember something you said about how the DOJ was going to stop this merger and then go break up Delta and United because the flying public was so furious about their poor treatment at the hands of the dastardly major airlines. Still think that the Feds will break up Delta and United for their next trick?

Nevermind. The answer to my question was in the "Show me the money" thread.

But feel to answer anyway Jetdriver. :)

Forgot to post this earlier when I saw it on a different board. Wondering if this is going to reflect the stance of the West pilots if they get their third seat at the SI. Essentially they bring no f/o's to the party but all captains. That their 1000 capts should be slotted in immediately with AA wide body capts, to make up for the harm the East has given them?

What say you Cacit and WD?


"Any of youse look at a NIC list lately??? Didn't think so... that head in the hole thing. Well, let me just say this: every active west pilot can hold Group 2 captain.

Every West pilot can hold Group 2 captain.

There are 250 west captains which can hold 330 captain

There are 750 west captains which can hold 767 captain

A 1999 hire on the west sits with 1985 hires on the east"

If you are going to quote me, get it right. What I said was there was no way DOJ could stop this merger, and not go into previous mergers. We'll see how everybody feels about this in five years after more capacity cuts, "right sizing" of hubs, and reductions in service. I think many who are tee heeing and slapping their backs over these mergers, will feel very different in 5 years or so when they are negotiating with a management team who knows the government will never allow a strike at an airline that is "too big to fail." Never said they were dastardly, what I said was when you give management teams this much power, they are going to use it to gain maximum profits for shareholders and management.

Time magazine had an article about capacity cuts and its affect on pricing and customer service last month. This is just the beginning.

Yes I think in 5-10 years you will see more government intervention in the airline industry due to business practices of the big 3 airlines. It is inevitable when you create corporations that have this much power and control over an industry. They will use their power in the marketplace against consumers and employees to create maximum profit. Its business management 101.

That being said, I think this is good news for the US Airways pilots that wanted to get rid of USAPA, and the American pilots that wanted to get rid of their management. It is also good news for both airlines so they will now be able to compete against United and Delta. It bad news, however for regional pilots because the PSA TA will stand, and I'm sure now we'll all face pressure for concessions similar to PSA and Endeavor.

The absolute starting point MUST be with the NIC and then we can sit down with APA and work via MB. I am not at all up for just going in with separate list and starting from scratch because it rewards the east only and that we just can not have.

The numbers you posted sound like they could be correct but I can not verify it at this time. What I can tell you is that usapa wasted time and money that would have been better spent in pilots pockets.

WD at AWA

Honestly, I am very ignorant of the plight of the industry outside of AA. I can say that an occasional jumpseat on both AWA and US in the past was uplifting, good service from good people. I have no idea what the future holds for us, but getting rid of our management and their philosophies will be a great start. There was no future for us (AA) before this consolidation, and now, just maybe I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.:o

I truly hope that all involved can eventually benefit someway, somehow. I don't blame anyone for being sour about the past present or future. As pilots, we put our hearts and souls into the profession and our workplace. That screwed-over sensation is really bad and long lasting. If there is anyway in my small cockpit world I can alleviate that, even a little, I'm a happy camper no matter what the higher-ups do!

Just proof of the outright theft and douchebaggery of the east pilots who brought 1600 furloughs to the us/Awa merge and undercut west pay and benefits.

God bless that furlough, I got back in, and retired, from the military.

How many ex-wives are you paying again? You seem strapped 4 cash.

So that wouldn't be a windfall, which EVERY pilot on the West side would have a capt seat available to them, prior to f/o's with no break in service, hadn't been furloughed etc etc etc?

So every west pilot hired post 9/11 deserved to have a capt seat before a guy with 20+ yrs?

Gotcha, Ok.

Hear that APA? that's what's coming at ya....

So by the nic being the starting point your saying every west pilot should be classified as a capt? You bring no f/os. Into the SLI? Even those hired in the 03-05 time frame?

This was broken down on an internal board, and whomever originally posted those numbers, they are wildly inaccurate. Not every pre-merger West pilot is senior enough to hold Group 2 Captain on the East, period - I checked. Many of them are. But to say that is only half the story.

Put it another way. If you take the number of the most junior 767 captain on the east, subtract the total number of 767 captains flying, you come up with a number (it's about 900) of people who *could* hold 767 captain but don't. Here's the thing - for every one of them, that is a choice! Some are 330 captains. Some are on the little bus because they don't want to fly international. Some are based in DCA because they live there. Some don't want to sit reserve. etc etc etc

So yes, were the Nicolau list in full effect, a fairly substantial portion (but not nearly all) of the pre-merger AWA pilots would be senior to the most junior A320 captain in an East domicile. However, a few other things would have to happen. First, seniority would have to be resolved. Second, there would have to be an opening. (No bump, no flush.) Third, a person would have to want the position. Many PHX-based pilots might prefer to stay based closer to home if they live out West. Some might prefer the right seat of the A330 to a junior left seat on the small bus. There are so many reasons for bidding what people bid that it is nearly impossible to speculate.

That said, the sooner the seniority issue is resolved, the better. Personally, I can't wait for the day that we have ONE seniority list for everyone at the new American.

And yes, getting rid of USAPA is a wonderful thing. This is an organization that filters EVERY decision they make (including what color to paint the men's room walls) through the question of how does it affect the seniority fight. These guys have been screwing over 80% of the pilot group to fight for the interests of 20% since Day One, and they've been empowered because too many fail to look beyond the rhetoric and see the facts.

What I am saying is that it is what it is now. The whole thing was balanced when issued and the east sought to disrupt that balance. Now things are completely out of whack but this is a direct result of the actions the east took. The east now wants to cry foul but really they brought all of this on themselves by not honoring our agreements.

This is what happens when you seek to deceive others its called karma.

WD at AWA

It will be very entertaining to listen to you east vs. west blowhards when you face the folks at APA. The coming food fight will be just another example of how pilots continue to be their own worst enemies, failing again to use the opportunity to put the past behind them and focus on forging a new dynamic that could, and should, change the pilot profession for the good. Nope, the infighting will simply intensify while management laughs all the way to the bank. Hope I am wrong.

Your probably right.......ha. Why would it change if 50 yrs or more ?!?

Albert Einstein might argue that pilots are insane.

I didn't quote you. If I did you would have seen these " ". I paraphrased you. And I was accurate.

The government will never allow a legacy airline to strike anyway. And, it's been that way for years.

OK. We'll hold our breath for that. Of course, your history of prognostication is not the best. Here are a few for the record:

No. The DOJ was interested in just US Airways and American.

Much of this one was just wrong, but the bolded part is laughable. The Justice Department's goal from the outset was to delay and obstruct. They had no intention of going to court with AA/US...and when they do go to court, their "batting average" is not good.

No. The politicians were largely in favor of the merger. They listened to the thousands of employees and other interested parties that wanted the deal done. The average consumer couldn't have cared less if the merger happened or not. Despite the fact that:

So wrong. But, that's fine, because we're all wrong at one point or another. It's one thing to just be wrong. The thing with you is...you came over to a thread that (according to you) didn't affect you one way or the other and stuck your finger in the eye of a bunch of good people who just got the rug pulled out from under them while they were trying to support their families. That's pretty small.