Got your gist, but I'm not sure you're getting my vibe of tragedy. To wit, with arbitration we still retain items Parker wants and very likely will try to again negotiate for (just like a Envoy). With this TA, he has everything but scope and the cheapest pilots in all contractual aspects essentially forever. With no contractual weapons of leverage, we're left with putting it all on the line in 2020 or likely years later and let's face it......if we can't do it now, we don't do it in 5-10 years when we're all older and more risk adverse.

Game over.

"Tragedy"

You use this word a lot. A tragedy is watching Enron employees lose everything.

Meh, whatever. Get back to rowing Parker's slave ship, Eaglefly!

You're still ignoring the fact that the dom/intl and HBT really isn't worth all that much. In dollar terms.

Parker gets his either way - either he gets the pilots to agree to do away with the above or he keeps pay rates lower and that compensates for the lack of efficiency created by not getting his wants.

I do use that term. That's because I'm watching a shipwreck and can't look away, but it's the yes voters begging to man the oars on the S.Y.O. (ScrewYouOver) Parker.

Not to worry. I plan to stock my lifeboat in 2020 and row myself away before she rolls over on down to Davy Jones' locker. :)

You really should quit flying here and go write soap opera story lines.

You are right. Neither HBT nor the combination of divisions really amounts to much dollar-wise. It's not much of a QOL give, if you can call it that. There's as much upside as down, it really depends on which angle you focus on most. It could mean a net reduction in headcount, but potential for growth which could ultimately grow headcount. Overall even APA valued all of the company's requests at around $120 million over the life of the contract.

In 2020, you may want to yourself. My condolences in advance.

You'll always think I'm ignoring that until I agree with you.

I'm sorry, but you have a looooong wait ahead of you on that.

I doubt it. Unlike you I actually like my job.

Yea sure, I hate my job. :cool:

Too funny.

I see no purpose in pointlessly wasting my time with you. Congrats on your yes vote and say hi ! to your idol for me at the next P conference.

Well based on your posts, it sure doesn't sound like you like working here.

FWIW- the company has never stopped building 5-day trips.

Looking at the credit, I don't think it's due to 5:15. Other than the 777/744 fence, it was the final holdout from the merger that hadn't cross populated. It was either do away with them, or keep them- and enough guys ask for them to where around 10% each category is what they are doing.

(sorry for the DL invasion, AA guys- just wanted to clarify)

I'm with you. Of course, EF will now qualify you as "anti-union" for going against him.

AA Pilots Unite Or Fold Forever
 

Min calendar day or no way.

Why do you think they are offering so much money upfront? It's because they want HBT and int/dom. If you think they are offering this much money for no reason other then out of the goodness of their heart and you need to rethink this.

We have leverage lets use it and get min calendar day. There is no reason that in this profitable environment we should be working more days than Delta and United pilots for less money.

Look a little beyond that. The APA gang of 10 (the crowd who wanted to send the first version of Parkers ultimatum to the pilots for vote) acknowledges in their attack against the gang of 12 that their move resulted in Parker balking when value was still on the table. So, in other words Parker could give more, has it, but out of spite, simply spit in our face for insulting him with a fair offer that he disliked. He blew another loogie in our faces when ALL the reps came together held out an olive branch to secure MCD.

Is this the guy you want to reward for this behavior ?

Is this the guy you expect to be any different in 2020 ?

I repeatedly hear how stupid APA (and AA pilots) was for trusting Parker to do this or that, yet now we ALL will capitulate to him to guilty of exactly that error, apparently having turned our backs on the past. We ALL now are AA pilots who will inherit the permanent title of "enablers" for Parker's tyranny.

This is our last opportunity to change the reality of this history.

Absolutely mind-boggling if we screw this up now.

APA should have fought for that calendar day from the start. But instead, they worried too much about furlough credit, disability, etc, i.e. stuff that doesn't affect most of us.

They also focused way too much on hourly pay. Typical AA. Hopefully by the next time we start talking those guys have been booted out or retired and we can get some fresh blood in the leadership.

Until the day that stuff does affect you. Then it's going to be pretty important.

I think the point he was trying to make is, APA really seemed to put their focus on pay during this process, even in their two counter proposals it was mainly about pay. I truly think this is what they thought would be of most value to the pilots.

Now it seems everyone is saying screw the money we want the work rules but problem is it is too late for that. They could have countered with no pay raises but lets get a 5:15 day and better disability or just 321 as group iii and that's it. But then everyone would be *****ing about the substandard pay.

Typical pilot bull%$#@, never happy no matter what.

Whole situation is a real shame and they could have done better for us and the previous poster is right, when this is all over there will be a push for some new blood in this clown show of a union.

Oh, the you aren't happy you should just quit routine. :D If Parker doesn't like pilots that demand he keep his word to pay like Delta when we make Delta profits, then he should just quit. :cool:

Delta makes more, is home several days more each month, and gets paid two extra months pay each year. Parker needs to quit.

You told us you don't even belong to the union, and you blame EF. Join and pay your dues. Dead beat. Just sayin' :D

Ditto.

The fact is, I didn't say. But does it really matter? Many of the guys I talk to out on the line is they are voting for it. I didn't say how I would vote.

P.S. I still think the APA is a "chicken$h!t" operation.

One day you may need disability and then you'll understand how critical it is. You sound VERY myopic and short-sided in your thinking. Your impending bribe will dissolve quickly once your Obamacare premiums are factored in.

Like that's going to make a difference. You're screwed, you just refuse to understand that yet. You will.:cool: