Atlas
 

Well, another week of negotiations and it's ground hog day again.

Company is asking for concessions on scope - I was unaware we even had scope 😂....

Just had someone go to envoy. Huge signing bonus, captain and flow ( more than we have now ) 100k first year pay.

17 day trips after 17 day trips - for 45k first year pay.

We are hiring - come on over.

Yes we have scope. Scope kept GSS out of MIA a few years back. If your working 17 days a month, the pay gotta be better that 45k. Ask your friends to submit details to the IBT anytime there is outsourced work. Keep the faith, they all capitulate in the end.

Whitecap is correct. Eventually they will capitulate. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Tough to compete with regionals offering 100k (second year pay 74k and you will be a reserve CA for a while). K4, Omni, and ATI hiring for those that can not seem to get on with a legacy or Southwest. It is truly a pilots world out there.

You can sit around and complain about the slowness of negotiations, or you can move on. It is a pilots choice today.

It hasn’t been done yet on this thread, but please don’t blame the length of negotiations on the union. Atlas is much tougher than anyone anticipated. Stay the course and reap the benefits or leave and start over. If I was a young pilot I would leave.

Trying hard to leave, its not as easy as I would have thought, but ill get out of this nightmare one way or another.

Hey, wasn't Atlas going to buy us out? An Atlas female FO even told us so...

And if she was hot you believed her 😀

Who is US? What company is that?

A little slow today aren't we?

?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

i’ll save you some detective work. He’s talking about K4

A Brief Recap of Atlas Negotiating History

Fellow Atlas Crew Members,

With so many new Atlas crew members, I receive regular inquiries about the lengthy labor history at Atlas and how we got to where we are today. Sadly, there is nothing new to the position Atlas management has historically taken. In this message, I will attempt to cover our 19-year negotiating history as briefly as possible and still give you an accurate perspective of what management is attempting to perpetrate on our pilot group and families, yet again.

In late 1999, Polar Air Cargo achieved its first union CBA under ALPA with a priority put on work rules and quality of life provisions, rather than compensation.

In 2001, Atlas Air purchased Polar Air Cargo from General Electric and thus began a somewhat disjointed merger and acquisition process. Although Atlas had purchased Polar, its leadership did not know exactly how to integrate Polar. Throughout the initial years of being under the same management structure relations grew strained – not only between the Polar MEC and Atlas MEC, but also between the Polar MEC and Atlas management in Purchase, NY. Atlas management worked constantly to leverage the pilots, pitting both groups against each other. While this worked well for management, it was to the detriment of the pilots. Polar’s CBA became amendable in 2002 and after three years of manipulating the pilot group and stonewalling at the negotiating table, the Polar pilots chose to strike in 2005. The successful 20-day strike, came to a close only when both the Atlas and Polar pilot groups finally started working together. Unfortunately, this strike was followed by a weak back-to-work agreement, reached in part due to an APLA representative’s mistaken assumption that the company would follow through in good faith if the pilots extended some good will in entering a critical post-strike negotiation. This included prematurely taking down the Polar picket, which gave away precious union leverage before ever beginning negotiations. The results were predictable. In essence, after a 20-day pilot strike, the resulting negotiation yielded little if anything more than what the company had offered before the strike. The Polar pilots came away with very modest raises and not much more.

In 2002, the Atlas pilots achieved their first union CBA. It provided better compensation than the Polar contract, but it contained some inferior work rules and quality of life provisions. Both CBAs were fashioned from an ALPA first contract blueprint. They were very basic and trailed behind the rest of the industry.

In 2004, before the Polar strike, Atlas and Polar had been thrust into bankruptcy after years of upper management officials’ excessive management compensation and a long history of loading up the company with massive debt, mostly attributed to aircraft acquisitions (sound familiar?). Both Atlas and Polar managed to come out of bankruptcy that same year after erasing over $900 million dollars off the balance sheet, a sizable amount for an airline with only 46 aircraft.

Along the way, the Atlas pilots were also able to negotiate modest raises, but nothing remotely close to any industry standard. Atlas and Polar pilots could not get on the same page and thus continued to play into the company’s hands. In 2008, after years of frustration and movement towards a joint CBA, a movement was started by the Atlas pilots to seek representation with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT). ALPA had come out with policies and opinions against the ACMI business as a whole; a business model that Atlas was and is still built upon. The move was successful and in late 2008, the Atlas and Polar pilots left ALPA and became part of the Teamsters. Before both pilot groups left ALPA, the merged seniority list was delivered to Atlas management thus triggering the amalgamation process and an arbitrated CBA.

Management initially offered a “dual track” expedited system and promised a CBA in nine months, further indicating that management would not hold an arbitrator to the “amalgamation standard” (sound familiar?). The Atlas and Polar pilots sat down at the table in good faith, expecting management to honor its promises to expeditiously negotiate a new joint CBA. Atlas management, of course, did nothing of the kind. The promised nine-month process took close to two years. Under oath, in the arbitration process, we learned that Atlas intentionally delayed the CBA for over a year at the apparent behest of DHL. In the resulting arbitration, virtually the first words out of the company’s high priced “Hollywood” lawyer was an admonition that the arbitrator did not have the authority to go outside the parameters of the Atlas and Polar CBAs thus triggering the “amalgamation standard”. Finally, in September of 2011, an amalgamated five-year CBA was produced.

Even though the merger of the two airlines never occurred, and to this very day, as everyone can all plainly see, Atlas and Polar have never been merged. Atlas management benefited from the misapplication of the provisions of both CBAs in order to take advantage of the merger provisions at the table and yet never actually merged the airlines as promised. This manipulated process produced a combined CBA based on a template of two first-time contracts. The combined Atlas/Polar CBA is now woefully behind the rest of industry. While everyone was relieved that the process was finally over, all understood that management had distorted a provision in the scope language of both CBAs to keep pilot work rules and pay well below industry standard. In fact our present CEO “crowed” to analysts and investors after the CBA was signed that the effective expense increase for the pilot workforce was only around seven percent. Through this manipulated and distorted process, the Atlas and Polar pilots were deprived of a ratification vote by the amalgamation process. To date, for the legacy Atlas and Polar pilot groups respectively, 16 and 18 years have elapsed since any pilot has voted or been able to ratify a true negotiated CBA here at Atlas. If management gets its way through the courts and the current attempted arbitration process, it will again deny all of us another opportunity to vote on our future and ratify a CBA, possibly for the next decade or more.

All of the above leads us to our current negotiations, in which this same management group is holding out on all of the major provisions of the CBA for (wait for it)…an AMALGAMATION. Management’s tactics and playbook are exactly the same as last time, as are the promises and assurances. All the while, the same catastrophic damage is being inflicted on our pilot group and our families. Of course the executives couldn’t care less, as they continue to line their pockets with the highest salaries in the airline industry, lavish bonuses and obscene perks. All this, while saddling the company with an increasingly unmanageable debt and passing on desirable lucrative contracts.

Many of you ask, “Why do we still sit and negotiate with a group that engages in such bad faith and has such a long history of doing so?” The answer is simple, we are bound by the Railway Labor Act (RLA) to negotiate in good faith and we are committed on our side to bargain in good faith, as will be evident to the NMB or an arbitrator if that is the path we are forced to travel.

The current Framework Agreement extension ends June 1, 2018, so we will see what happens after that. For now, it appears certain that the company is dragging this process out just so they can get to the well one more time to enjoy yet another misapplication of the current CBA merger provisions.

As we move forward, we have something labor rarely has in dealing with any management group. We have a long and sordid management track record on which to rely. When this management group makes promises and assertions, they have one big problem; their track record precedes and betrays them. As discussed, it is a negotiating history based upon broken promises, reneging on deals and commitments. It is one of telling crew members only half of the story, misusing and manipulating language in the CBA (like in the recent strike language arbitration, when management’s history was totally exposed and justifiably denied by the arbitrator) and the list goes on. I can assure you we will NEVER again fall for such false promises, half-baked truths and deals on which management can renege. In short, we maintain the advantage of having “seen this movie before”.

I know the process to achieve a new CBA is long and arduous; the last one took 6-8 years, depending on whether you were Atlas or Polar. This one will not take as long, as Atlas cannot survive it. Already past the point of no return, even the most optimistic of business viewpoints, it will take years if not an entire decade for this company to recover from this current management-imposed fiasco. Indeed, there are now only a very few “executive level” managers who believe in the current company strategy or who haven't buried their heads in the sand as Atlas and Southern continue to wither. It is now clear that the executive suite has lost not only the confidence of the Atlas and Southern pilots, but most of the airline’s employees and middle management as well. Parked aircraft, large amounts of open time, cancelled flights and angry customers do not lead anyone, except the very top few that Atlas is in anything other than steep decline. Hiding the pilot shortage and pilot retention problems behind false maintenance listings is all part of this desperate management’s scheme to hide the real disaster they have brought upon themselves.

The fastest and best way to get a new CBA remains through direct, good faith negotiations. It is the only thing that can save Atlas from further irreparable harm. It is also the way to the industry-standard CBA we all deserve. The more unity, resolve, and contract compliance we maintain, the faster we will get a new CBA. There are several picketing events coming up in May and June, so come out and participate in force like the recent CVG event to show our solidarity.

We are a strong, cohesive pilot group and for that teamwork I am convinced we will ALL be rewarded.

As usual, I thank all of you for your support. We will prevail and break the string of amalgamated, inferior, bottom level CBAs that this pilot group has had inflicted upon it for so many years.

Remember, always be “ALL-IN”.

Fraternally,

Bob K.
Atlas Executive Council Chairman

Any guesses about what happens now to N641GT after the hard landing at PSM this morning? Bang Ding Ow!

Maybe a line of speed tape all the way around the crease the runs the circumference of the fuselage?

The soldiers' photos and comments are priceless. Good news that nobody hurt. (Obviously no personal injury lawyers around to explain that lower back pain isn't medically-provable or disprovable.)

Maybe Joe Hete will remove one -300 from the ABX fleet and give it to Atlas. He likes to do stuff like that.

talent pool
 

This is what will be happening as the talent pool dries up. Manipulating controls is easy and experience only comes with time, and the experienced pilots are just not there like they use to be. Only saying.

What happened? Everyone ok?

Guy are coming on with incredible interface skills. 100% engaged with the automation and quite comfortable with the first generation capabilities of the B767.

Disconnect the a/p at 1000”, stare at the EADI for 90 seconds, as you start to zone out after 8+ hours of flight and looking up in the last 50 feet, not knowing where to look, and there you have it...

Hey we broke one in GDL a couple of years past. New first officer (MIT grad) bounced one and let go at 40 feet to test the ....captain autoland feature. She eventually got fired but is flyin 737 freighters in Honolulu. It all works out.

True that, but they would have to put the seats back in. It was an AMC troop flight.

Happy to report that the FO completed OE with that landing and is all signed off and good to go!! Fedex interview in August.

Hahaha. That’s funny ****.

Love freight... Never had a bone for anything else. Are you a real freight man or just a dawg?[
QUOTE=motorclutch;2643744]Hey we broke one in GDL a couple of years past. New first officer (MIT grad) bounced one and let go at 40 feet to test the ....captain autoland feature. She eventually got fired but is flyin 737 freighters in Honolulu. It all works out.[/QUOTE]

OUCH!!!!!!

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...21&oe=5C0B7274

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...c5&oe=5C0DE8DD

Damn......

This could have been much much worse

The pilot flying will now move immediately into management with a significant pay raise...

It'll buff right out!

“that guy” has finally arrived.

Not cool man. Not cool.

No, he will go directly into the training center. Low time, low experience, the inability to say "no" for the foreseeable future, very low pay longevity and at least one accident now. Everything Lindsey/management wants to see in the training center.

You would think I would have gotten a phone call, email or a LOI from the company or FAA. Guess it was someone else. ****

I do know from experience that the current ExCo doesn't seem to be able to man the emergency line at Atlas 1224 for member calls despite their regular paying of UB/FPL at record highs. $1.272 million for 2017 in pdf. Curious if these guys called the union emergency line and got an answer. Complaints of no one picking up the phone at 1224 have been going all the way up to IBT Int'l regularly. So much for ** running it like a business. Guess he is following the Atlas model and taking what he can and not providing the service.

Never heard that complaint from anyone else. ***

As far as I know the apa1224 emergency line works fine and is answered for all members. Sometimes there is a delay (minutes) where you may be on hold as the phone tree works. If nobody picks up for a while, you’ll wind up on the phone with BK directly.

If someone calls and the emergency line doesn’t work, that’s actually a significant problem and it needs to be addressed immediately. I’d suggest emailing stewards with the specifics of when you called, when you got a response, etc.

While it’s clear to me that DC-8 is joking, we should probably make crystal-clear that politics don’t factor in emergency support provided by the union. If you’re a dues-paying member, we will support you.

Actually, I got that from the local 1224 president and the IBT Airline Director. Guess your just not as informed as you think. You should expand your universe....

You being the self designated "in the know union official" here, lets just say your right that the ExCo Chairman willfully ignored a dues paying members call on the emergency line at 1224.

Then that becomes a Duty of Fair Representation matter for not representing all the dues paying members equally. Having had to represent guys like you in the past when they came a knocking for help, I did my job and helped them. It was the job and DFR's was taught then.

That's the job of the elected and volunteers quickly forgotten under our currently elected leader. Streaming it down our unions food chain under him exposing our local, volunteers and members to lawsuits by our own when they pull that kind of crap. All from an elected leader who has found a way to extend his career at our expense to serve as a business agent at his FAA required retirement knowing he was not going to see the end of the disaster he helped create here at Atlas with lawsuits that were known losers and wasting our money and time.

.......

I don't share your confidence.

Others, along with me have found it lacking. Complained about up to IBT Int'l by many and it has been an ongoing issue. DC-8 isn't joking, it is the underling problem we have at Atlas 1224. Not doing their job and who you are counts also, not that you are a dues paying member.

It is a simple answering service that asks you who you are, who you work for, and the general problem. Then they start calling the contact people for that group while your on hold. It is obvious that our elected are selectively answering the calls and "forgetting to turn their phone on". All while we are paying record levels of Flight Pay Loss for guys to man the phones.

So much for running this union like a business as BK says.

Alright, you’re clearly upset with your experience with the union. You wouldnt be this upset if things worked to your satisfaction. Also, since we are talking about emergency response, some pretty important union functions haven’t lived up to your expectations.

So let’s establish facts (within the limits of what we can do here). Do you have records of calling and NOT being assisted? Call logs from your phone, emails asking “how do I reach you guys?” All work. Since this is a public forum, don’t include identifying details about yourself or your call. What would be worth knowing is the time from when you made your first call to the union the time you got a response. Did you call once or make multiple attempts?

What, in your opinion is a worthwhile response time?

My goal is to listen to you; not set you up for a “...so there!” moment. Also, sometimes problems become self-correcting. If we get hard data that confirms a degree of favoritism in response, we will get our act together really fast. If we get hard data that confirms no favoritism, that’s great too.

At the end of the day we are here for you.

Elevation is correct. My post was clearly made in jest. Some people simply have no sense of humor (which is also an indication of the level of intelligence!).*****

I am not a union officer or committee member. I have not spoken to a union exco member in more than a year.

Elevation,

You have been one of the more sincere, level headed, and less tribal of all the factions under Atlas 1224. I appreciate your reply.

I've had two events within 6 months of each. Hopefully trouble doesn't happen in three's here. All phone audio recorded and on my call log. One call with the older call forwarding/hunt feature of the emergency line and one with the human manned answering service one that gets your details then they call around for those on the contact list and patches onto the line with them. One event over FAR interpretation and Atlas willy-nilly deciding to make an FO unqualified on the -8 as a "cruise FO" on a heavy crew the other was the lack of the ground crew not removing equipment out of the way (also out of view by crew in cockpit) when being marshaled out.

First case, the call went immediately to an answering machine which later turned out to be a Stewards cell phone that was left off and his voicemail answered. Left a couple of messages on that. Later got an email about four hours into the flight looking at the email header. So the forward/hunt feature at that time works, just the end user not doing their job of turning the phone on per the email I later got. I did get an ExCo to answer after about eight tries by direct calls due to me having just about everyone's info in union office in my cell due to my past union work. Don't think average joe pilot has that. End result after the mutual outrage, my earlier requesting letters/acars from the CP and calling out the company ended with the trip going and the ExCo member saying he will stand with me if the FAA comes after the crew. Filed the standard reports.

This case was mostly poor manning and protocol on our part.

Second case,

Was an incident that the emergency line went to the human answering service that gets your details and contact info then they seek someone to answer the phone in what ever hierarchy they are using now. They answered promptly, got my carrier, name, cell, and a short brief and a read back of the info I gave them. Spent about 12 minutes on hold while they called around to "connect me" with someone on the call list. At the end of the 12 or so minutes they said they could not get anyone answer and that they would try take forward the message and have someone eventually contact me. No one called back.

This event was after the infamous P2P call in which the Atlas ExCo chair defamed those that supported the FPL amendment vote and encouraged the P2P committee to go forth to the membership and do the same.

I later found out while talking to the the 1224 Pres about this problem that the person that was supposed to be answering at that time had called him and told him what happened. As told by our Pres, our ExCo chair got the call and said for the operator to call him back when he "safely pulls over his car" in which he did for a while and he states no one called him back. So, while not bothering to attempt to close the loop on a emergency line call he drove off to home not even calling the answering service back on why the patch to the caller (me) didn't happen. He never--never bothered contacting me about it but was willing to tell the 1224 pres his story instead. I confronted him on a later membership crew call, but no "this won't happen again this way or apology." Just excuses and a restatement of what he did mirroring the above, nor any explanation why he never closed the loop on the issue to include on that call. Also have to take into account that his story didn't match what I had recorded with the emergency line answering service.

My crew and I were on our own and to tell the truth, after the infamous P2P call with his defamation's and orders to that committee to do the same on the named FPL amendment supporters, I wasn't expecting any after that the way we are now at Atlas 1224.

Pure malice which is against the local bylaws and IBT constitution, let alone the duty of fair representation issues.

I took this up the food chain since the Pres. didn't provide any resolution or interest in my recordings/evidence. Up the chain, we have come to an agreement and I'm waiting to see what stupidity transpires next before pulling the trigger. If anyone is experiencing the same, feel free to PM me with details and we can include you in the action taken.