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Originally Posted by dutch747
(Post 2732903)
This is one route they will could take. I'm betting they will try to bypass the union leadership and present our pilot group with an increase in wages, a few minor changes to work rules and status quo on everything else. All while yelling "LET THEM VOTE!!!"
Same thing that was done at Omni and Kalitta. Whatever the path, Atlas Air is not a employee friendly place to hang your hat. |
Amazon/DHL Airlines
As I said neither of those companies OWN airlines....there is quite a bit more to owning an airline than just owning aircraft. He!! Wells Fargo owns aircraft, engines etc...they do not own a airline any more Amazon or DHL..domestic anyway.
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Originally Posted by nitefr8dog
(Post 2733693)
As I said neither of those companies OWN airlines....there is quite a bit more to owning an airline than just owning aircraft. He!! Wells Fargo owns aircraft, engines etc...they do not own a airline any more Amazon or DHL..domestic anyway.
Why would they "want" to own an airline? They just put their freight on an airplane they dry lease to an airline for a token amount and say "make it go between here and there." Screw up enough and I'll cancel the lease, stop your management fees for handling it, and move my aircraft to airline X, Y, or Z. Works the same if the airline has it's own A/C like some of the Atlas ones also by canceling the contract. They do this(DHL) around with world with many different airlines. Anyway, DHL does own 49% of Polar which is owned by Atlas. Amazon has warrants for 20% of Atlas Air with an option for 10% more at $37.50 per share but they have not exercised them yet. Probably waiting for the stock price to move. So one does own in part an airline and the other can own in part an airline when they exercise their warrants. Not sure your point other than pointing out what is an airline. I'm pointing out how they can screw with our jobs working us against each other and how they have been doing it in the past. Been their a few times. |
Originally Posted by scrupulous
(Post 2734035)
Why would they "want" to own an airline? They just put their freight on an airplane they dry lease to an airline for a token amount and say "make it go between here and there." Screw up enough and I'll cancel the lease, stop your management fees for handling it, and move my aircraft to airline X, Y, or Z. Works the same if the airline has it's own A/C like some of the Atlas ones also by canceling the contract. They do this(DHL) around with world with many different airlines.
Anyway, DHL does own 49% of Polar which is owned by Atlas. Amazon has warrants for 20% of Atlas Air with an option for 10% more at $37.50 per share but they have not exercised them yet. Probably waiting for the stock price to move. So one does own in part an airline and the other can own in part an airline when they exercise their warrants. Not sure your point other than pointing out what is an airline. I'm pointing out how they can screw with our jobs working us against each other and how they have been doing it in the past. Been their a few times. |
The old "shinyjetsyndrome" has become the "shiny747syndrome".
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Originally Posted by gurugee
(Post 2733282)
hello guys !
i got an interview with atlas jan- 15 th 2019. they got intervies on 14 /15/16 of january any idea ;what equipment they are hiring these days 747/767? Atlas 747 Southern 777 Atlas 767 Southern 737. Read all the threads about Atlas/Southern and be informed. PM me if you have specific questions. |
Originally Posted by aviatorhi
(Post 2734855)
The old "shinyjetsyndrome" has become the "shiny747syndrome".
reading this thread, Atlas guys are in a netherworld... how can you explain something is better out there when Atlas guys don't even know what better is.... If they want to be convinced that ALPA sucks, go for it... but ALPA sucks less than everyone else, simply due to the resources... the IBT doesn't have near the funds, institutional knowledge and resources as ALPA... If you don't have the funds and ability to strike the company owns the negotiation process.. combine that with Trump NMB and the only thing that is going to compel management to negotiate is labor peace and stability... if they don't see that value then you guys are screwed.... As I said... WB FOs at my carrier make more than B747 CAs at Atlas.. and that is just the pay rate... the work rules, benefits and retirement will make you weep. But hey, you're flying the Queen. :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by atpcliff
(Post 2734859)
Your basic understanding is wrong. The equipment is 747/777/767/737. 777 and 737 are Southern, and 747/767 are Atlas. Many of our prospects have been offered Southern class dates. Most have said no, and held out for an Atlas class date, or realized none of the above is a better option. In my opinion, they stack up like this:
Atlas 747 Southern 777 Atlas 767 Southern 737. Read all the threads about Atlas/Southern and be informed. PM me if you have specific questions. |
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
(Post 2734866)
It's not what you fly, it's who you fly for....
reading this thread, Atlas guys are in a netherworld... how can you explain something is better out there when Atlas guys don't even know what better is.... If they want to be convinced that ALPA sucks, go for it... but ALPA sucks less than everyone else, simply due to the resources... the IBT doesn't have near the funds, institutional knowledge and resources as ALPA... If you don't have the funds and ability to strike the company owns the negotiation process.. combine that with Trump NMB and the only thing that is going to compel management to negotiate is labor peace and stability... if they don't see that value then you guys are screwed.... As I said... WB FOs at my carrier make more than B747 CAs at Atlas.. and that is just the pay rate... the work rules, benefits and retirement will make you weep. But hey, you're flying the Queen. :rolleyes: Atlas pilots absolutely do know what "better" is which is why those of us who haven't yet left, have chosen to stay and fight, or simply can't leave for one reason or another are fighting tooth and nail for a better contract. We continuously try to point out to Atlas applicants that they should NEVER take a job because of the equipment. We say this over and over. As for ALPA, virtually every Atlas pilot has been an ALPA member at one point or another. We all know what ALPA is and what they have to offer. And we know that a union has practically nothing to do with the national organization and everything to do with the pilot group and their local leadership. I say this as a former 20+ year ALPA member and now as a 7+ year Teamster. As far as a strike goes, the size of the coffers has nothing to do with whether or not Atlas pilots go on strike. You should read up a little on what conditions must exist in order for a pilot union to go on strike. It has nothing to do with financial resources. Now, I don't know what airline you fly for and I don't really care. What I do know is that you don't really need to come to the Atlas pilot web boards and brag about just how much more you make and how much better your working conditions are. We are all very much aware that this is true at most other airlines. If, on the other hand, you ever have something constructive or encouraging to say, then by all means, let us know! |
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
(Post 2734866)
It's not what you fly, it's who you fly for....
reading this thread, Atlas guys are in a netherworld... how can you explain something is better out there when Atlas guys don't even know what better is.... If they want to be convinced that ALPA sucks, go for it... but ALPA sucks less than everyone else, simply due to the resources... the IBT doesn't have near the funds, institutional knowledge and resources as ALPA... If you don't have the funds and ability to strike the company owns the negotiation process.. combine that with Trump NMB and the only thing that is going to compel management to negotiate is labor peace and stability... if they don't see that value then you guys are screwed.... As I said... WB FOs at my carrier make more than B747 CAs at Atlas.. and that is just the pay rate... the work rules, benefits and retirement will make you weep. But hey, you're flying the Queen. :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by nitefr8dog
(Post 2734283)
Amazon and DHL have little to do with the jobs at ABX.....its all management . Little man syndrome, even if it costs more money or lost profits. To caught up in being able to say " because I said so" even if it costs millions more. At one time crews where being paid 1250$ more each day for Captain's and 750$ for FO's instead for putting catering on which was the unions proposal. The answer..no catering! That will teach am! ABX could have bought a catering company for what they spent in a 3 mo period until they fixed the lines. That is one of a thousand different events that their attorneys have convinced them they can break the union over. The crews just laughed and bought better catering.
At least the first two got taken out under IBT before we went backwards with this administration. We were slowly cleaning them out until this recently un-elected administration via a last minute E-board expansion of the Atlas ExCo numbers (5 to 7) to the number running for office. Thus no election, just placement of the 7 raised hands vs an election of 5. No one could be bounced.
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
(Post 2734866)
It's not what you fly, it's who you fly for....
reading this thread, Atlas guys are in a netherworld... how can you explain something is better out there when Atlas guys don't even know what better is.... If they want to be convinced that ALPA sucks, go for it... but ALPA sucks less than everyone else, simply due to the resources... the IBT doesn't have near the funds, institutional knowledge and resources as ALPA... If you don't have the funds and ability to strike the company owns the negotiation process.. combine that with Trump NMB and the only thing that is going to compel management to negotiate is labor peace and stability... if they don't see that value then you guys are screwed.... As I said... WB FOs at my carrier make more than B747 CAs at Atlas.. and that is just the pay rate... the work rules, benefits and retirement will make you weep. But hey, you're flying the Queen. :rolleyes: We spent a number of years fighting among ourselves (Atlas-Polar) under ALPA and it collectively severely stagnated our contract growth. ALPA picked one side and sabotaged the larger group. "ALPA Unit 1" even told us about it and that verified what Prater as ALPA's leader at the time was doing to us. It cost us years in an improved CBA for our now unified group of 10 airlines under Local 1224. Many of which operate for DHL/Amazon. Our stagnation was a result of ALPA's and the the smaller carrier's hate of the ACMI world though they were happy to take our dues money while shooting us collectively in the foot. That got fixed with decertifying them and booting out of office a number of the problems but chewed up a lot of time. We should have one more CBA behind us but don't due to this ALPA sabotage. So while our current leadership like JonnyKnoxville works the union business pay system and union compensated helpers like DC8Driver work there angle, it won't last for long. The remaining membership that gets some time under their belts here will start seeing how the failed past tactics of pre-Atlas/Polar merger repeating themselves now. It's easier to elect new leadership that actually upholds their promises than decertify. I know being one of the guys who accomplished it the last time and knowing exactly what ALPA will do to us if we go back. |
Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville
(Post 2735077)
Maybe when ALPA can deliver a contract that pays their entire pilot group the total compensation that the IPA Union has achieved for their pilot group, then you can climb back on your high horse. For now, you and your ALPA carrier are playing second fiddle at best.
Now that is funny! IPA has done NOTHING for the Atlas pilots except take the largest percentage of dues that any other pilot group is paying. Good for those on the board that are making 300k doing UB and eating prime rib and king prawns on the union members dime. *********g pathetic. |
IPA represents UPS pilots
IBT represents Atlas pilots (and others) |
Originally Posted by FR8Dog7
(Post 2735137)
"IPA Union has achieved for their pilot group"
Now that is funny! IPA has done NOTHING for the Atlas pilots except take the largest percentage of dues that any other pilot group is paying. Good for those on the board that are making 300k doing UB and eating prime rib and king prawns on the union members dime. *********g pathetic. |
Originally Posted by FR8Dog7
(Post 2735137)
"IPA Union has achieved for their pilot group"
Now that is funny! IPA has done NOTHING for the Atlas pilots except take the largest percentage of dues that any other pilot group is paying. Good for those on the board that are making 300k doing UB and eating prime rib and king prawns on the union members dime. *********g pathetic. Damn, I missed that completely! But then again I am not a Union guy like J.K. is that posted it. Change mine to IBT! Dave Bourne and his bunch of broken promise maker cronies! |
Originally Posted by scrupulous
(Post 2735125)
Doesn't sound too unlike:
At least the first two got taken out under IBT before we went backwards with this administration. We were slowly cleaning them out until this recently un-elected administration via a last minute E-board expansion of the Atlas ExCo numbers (5 to 7) to the number running for office. Thus no election, just placement of the 7 raised hands vs an election of 5. No one could be bounced. We spent a number of years fighting among ourselves (Atlas-Polar) under ALPA and it collectively severely stagnated our contract growth. ALPA picked one side and sabotaged the larger group. "ALPA Unit 1" even told us about it and that verified what Prater as ALPA's leader at the time was doing to us. It cost us years in an improved CBA for our now unified group of 10 airlines under Local 1224. Many of which operate for DHL/Amazon. Our stagnation was a result of ALPA's and the the smaller carrier's hate of the ACMI world though they were happy to take our dues money while shooting us collectively in the foot. That got fixed with decertifying them and booting out of office a number of the problems but chewed up a lot of time. We should have one more CBA behind us but don't due to this ALPA sabotage. So while our current leadership like JonnyKnoxville works the union business pay system and union compensated helpers like DC8Driver work there angle, it won't last for long. The remaining membership that gets some time under their belts here will start seeing how the failed past tactics of pre-Atlas/Polar merger repeating themselves now. It's easier to elect new leadership that actually upholds their promises than decertify. I know being one of the guys who accomplished it the last time and knowing exactly what ALPA will do to us if we go back. Now, the ALPA President is an all Cargo guy... How long do you hold onto what happened last decade? Times change... BTW we don't like negotiating against your poor wages... I'm sure you do... you're welcome. |
DEM
You really make ALPA look petty and your really not doing your party any favors. You ignore any choice any other pilot group chooses, yet then bally hoo how it is up to the pilots to decide their future. You really ought to review your postings on the topic. Your contradictions are amusing to many of us:D Your lack of comment on my and others specific questions for you in previous posts is also expected. Oh well. Cheers ;) |
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
(Post 2735372)
Now, the ALPA President is an all Cargo guy...
Besides, Atlas is not an all cargo airline. Our passenger operations are larger than some ALPA airlines’ are. |
Originally Posted by CallmeJB
(Post 2735445)
What difference does that make? I’ve never seen union governance that was tailored to the type of revenue being transported.
Besides, Atlas is not an all cargo airline. Our passenger operations are larger than some ALPA airlines’ are. And Kirschner and Bourne really don't care as long as the $$ keep rolling in! Prime rib and king prawns for everyone! |
So what you're telling me is... with less resources, funds and experience the IBT is going to deliver Atlas pilots a contract equal to any similar type pilot group at ALPA....
Let me know when.... meanwhile enjoy the Queen... |
Copy your IBT comment, what about SWAPA, APA, IPA?
They have better contracts than many ALPA. |
Originally Posted by FR8Dog7
(Post 2735542)
And Kirschner and Bourne really don't care as long as the $$ keep rolling in! Prime rib and king prawns for everyone!
There is a reason Atlas Air has never been a good place to work and it is because clowns like you two mismanaged the ship for far too long. |
Originally Posted by scrupulous
(Post 2735125)
At least the first two got taken out under IBT before we went backwards with this administration.
We were slowly cleaning them out until this recently un-elected administration via a last minute E-board expansion of the Atlas ExCo numbers (5 to 7) to the number running for office. Thus no election, just placement of the 7 raised hands vs an election of 5. No one could be bounced. So while our current leadership like JonnyKnoxville works the union business pay system and union compensated helpers like DC8Driver work there angle, it won't last for long. The remaining membership that gets some time under their belts here will start seeing how the failed past tactics of pre-Atlas/Polar merger repeating themselves now. It's easier to elect new leadership that actually upholds their promises than decertify. I know being one of the guys who accomplished it the last time and knowing exactly what ALPA will do to us if we go back. Also, for the record, I am rather certain everyone on APC at Atlas Air knows who I am. There is no need to keep trying to out me in every one of your posts. I have never had any interest in hiding my identity mainly because, well, I have nothing to hide. You on the other hand like to change screen names... Thanks for the entertainment. Hey, how is your Gulfstream doing these days? lol :) |
Originally Posted by SaltyDog
(Post 2735564)
Copy your IBT comment, what about SWAPA, APA, IPA?
They have better contracts than many ALPA. one another note, ALPA is a part of IFALPA... get criminalized in a foreign state and you are going to wish you had an network of representation that can get there in hours... not weeks... Ask your IBT leadership... I can only imagine what your hotels are like... |
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
(Post 2735586)
such as...
one another note, ALPA is a part of IFALPA... get criminalized in a foreign state and you are going to wish you had an network of representation that can get there in hours... not weeks... Ask your IBT leadership... I can only imagine what your hotels are like... Sadly, your rant of ALPA is exactly what turns off many non ALPA pilots at those unions, so your recruiting efforts backfire. :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by SaltyDog
(Post 2735623)
Yeah, union I belong has done same. Proven several time overseas. Your ignorance of other unions is amusing.
Sadly, your rant of ALPA is exactly what turns off many non ALPA pilots at those unions, so your recruiting efforts backfire. :rolleyes: Are you going to provide negotiating leverage for DAL (soon) and UAL who are currently in Section 6... or are you waiting for them to help you.. |
Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville
(Post 2735565)
Says the clueless guy who retired how long ago now? Honestly, don't you have anything...I mean, ANYTHING better to do in retirement? It is pretty sad that you come on here when requested by (scrupulous/suddenimpact) to back up his posts full of lies?
There is a reason Atlas Air has never been a good place to work and it is because clowns like you two mismanaged the ship for far too long. Actually, Atlas USED to be a GREAT place to work. That is before all of you children of entitlement showed up. (Along with Jeff Carlson) and all of his buddies that he brought on. You just keep telling yourself that 1224 is going to get you that great contract where you make 400k a year. Well you probably are, flying on your X days and getting your FPL on your UB days. I understand you like your prime rib medium rare! |
Originally Posted by FR8Dog7
(Post 2735665)
Actually, Atlas USED to be a GREAT place to work. That is before all of you children of entitlement showed up. (Along with Jeff Carlson) and all of his buddies that he brought on. You just keep telling yourself that 1224 is going to get you that great contract where you make 400k a year. Well you probably are, flying on your X days and getting your FPL on your UB days. I understand you like your prime rib medium rare!
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Originally Posted by deus ex machina
Are you going to provide negotiating leverage for DAL (soon) and UAL who are currently in Section 6... or are you waiting for them to help you..
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Originally Posted by deus ex machina
(Post 2735642)
Are you going to provide negotiating leverage for DAL (soon) and UAL who are currently in Section 6... or are you waiting for them to help you..
Wait, no, that can't be right. I don't think that FDX is eager to use the gains that ALPA got ATI in their next round of negotiations. Especially considering the fact that ATI got a contract that had worse pay scales than the pay scales that Omni (*ahem, IBT 1224*) had received before ATI ever signed their TA. Yeah, that was pattern bargaining at its finest. Thanks, ALPA! :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
(Post 2735642)
Interesting... tell me more about your international network of legal and pilot representation wrt the criminalization of pilots in foreign states.....
Are you going to provide negotiating leverage for DAL (soon) and UAL who are currently in Section 6... or are you waiting for them to help you.. You don't say anything or respond to inquiry asked, only act like ALPA superior in all things. You apparently know but wont answer as other unions have expertise and capability to support represented pilots. Already have the answers myself. I already know about the various unions strengths and challenges. You are blind to your own propaganda. Lousy diplomat for ALPA. (I know some good ones though in leadership positions) No perfect pilot union. All have challenges. Most pilots understand this fact. ;) |
Originally Posted by SaltyDog
(Post 2735828)
LOL!
You don't say anything or respond to inquiry asked, only act like ALPA superior in all things. You apparently know but wont answer as other unions have expertise and capability to support represented pilots. Already have the answers myself. I already know about the various unions strengths and challenges. You are blind to your own propaganda. Lousy diplomat for ALPA. (I know some good ones though in leadership positions) No perfect pilot union. All have challenges. Most pilots understand this fact. ;) How do you represent your IBT pilots internationally when they are incarcerated by govt? |
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
(Post 2735586)
such as...
one another note, ALPA is a part of IFALPA... get criminalized in a foreign state and you are going to wish you had an network of representation that can get there in hours... not weeks... Ask your IBT leadership... I can only imagine what your hotels are like... |
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
(Post 2734866)
It's not what you fly, it's who you fly for....
reading this thread, Atlas guys are in a netherworld... how can you explain something is better out there when Atlas guys don't even know what better is.... If they want to be convinced that ALPA sucks, go for it... but ALPA sucks less than everyone else, simply due to the resources... the IBT doesn't have near the funds, institutional knowledge and resources as ALPA... If you don't have the funds and ability to strike the company owns the negotiation process.. combine that with Trump NMB and the only thing that is going to compel management to negotiate is labor peace and stability... if they don't see that value then you guys are screwed.... As I said... WB FOs at my carrier make more than B747 CAs at Atlas.. and that is just the pay rate... the work rules, benefits and retirement will make you weep. But hey, you're flying the Queen. :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by Globemaster2827
(Post 2735972)
Would ALPA have prevented K4 from voting for their industry worst retirement? Or is that more of a K4 pilot group thing...
Does the IBT, SWAPA and IPA consider other pilot groups and the effect their CBA will have on them? |
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
(Post 2735974)
Perhaps... the ALPA president signs the contract with consideration to other pilot groups... do you have that checks and balances at IBT...
Does the IBT, SWAPA and IPA consider other pilot groups and the effect their CBA will have on them? |
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
(Post 2735951)
Asking for details... not rhetoric... either you got it or you don't...
How do you represent your IBT pilots internationally when they are incarcerated by govt? Not rhetoric. No response by you either :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by SaltyDog
(Post 2735995)
I asked for details too. As have others
Not rhetoric. No response by you either :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by akfrtdwg 57
(Post 2735994)
Hahaha I find it humourous you bring up this point. As Kalittas beef with IBT was DB was preventing them from voting on their current CBA because how it could affect other contracts being negotiated. So you are saying that ALPA is going todo the same thing. Thanks for the morning laugh friend.
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Originally Posted by FR8Dog7
(Post 2735665)
I understand you like your prime rib medium rare!
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