dera

You don't check your duty legality before you block out?

Turbine1

I do. But the way they intermix our pax and cargo flying from day to day it’s another threat we shouldn’t have to worry about. Like doing all our own accounting for travel expenses and if you miss something your pay is docked.

I think one of our VPs said “You can trust AIMS!”.. Another lie. The only thing that matters here is moving the jet.

Globemaster2827

The problem you have is that this is true for some. The pilots coming to Atlas without the PIC are dooming themselves to possibly even being in the right seat with a break up of the company in 10 years. You are correct that if you have zero PIC it's a horrible career move. You will get stuck with a miserable career.

BUT... Those who have the degree and the PIC are adding something onto their resume that's very desirable for FedEx and UPS. Applicants aren't stupid and know this.

I agree that people should stop accepting jobs there following the last ruling but the reality is that as long as it sends pilots to UPS and FedEx that they will keep showing up for classes. SOME of those that are showing up for classes are personally justified in doing so IF a Boeing Type makes them immediately competitive for UPS, FedEx or even Delta.

itsjustajob

Have you ever tracked 121/117 simultaneously, and compared both sets of rules against your flight and duty times prior to block-out?

C17B74

“BUT... Those who have the degree and the PIC are adding something onto their resume that's very desirable for FedEx and UPS. Applicants aren't stupid and know this.” - Globemaster2827

^^^^^This!!!^^^^^ Fact, they will always show. Smooth transition.

747/767 Prime candidates, no pun intended, just hurtful.
FedEx and UPS Drivers can show you their hiring stats, Atlas does very well.

Globemaster2827

I'm not saying always... Their classes were always full in 2011. Now they are having trouble filling classes. My understanding was their list slightly grew last year.

As long as the people who show out number the people who leave.... Management wins. As long as there's incentive to show some will. The ones who really hurt are the ones who can't get out.

If the ones who are hurting their careers to show would stop coming it'd help the situation, but if you're an RJ Captain with a degree and 1000 hours PIC...

EMBskillz

I have not seen difficulty in becoming employed by legacy or LCC without PIC. Plenty here have moved on. In fact I have seen more leave without than with. I don’t see the risk working at Atlas without PIC other than seems very unenjoyable?

Blackhawk

While possible, those are the exception. Looking at averages it seems about 1500-2000 TPIC is the average. Yeah, you will have some high time TPIC offsetting the zero TPIC, but these are the averages. Someone going to Atlas with zero TPIC risks being there for the long haul.

Champeen07

Literally almost every single company that owns airplanes in the US is hiring pilots. While yes I know its not ideal and no one wants to give up whatever seniority they have gained over the years, maybe sometimes the better move is to just throw in the towel and move on. Probably be a lot happier a lot quicker than you would think.

Atlas would be up a creek really quick too, and they deserve it.

Globemaster2827

Lol... Go then. If you don't believe me then try it. I PROMISE you it matters at FedEx and UPS. I PROMISE you, but if you think you're the lottery ticket that gets hired at Delta without it then go and enjoy your time at Atlas.... For a long time.