Atlas vs United
04-13-2023, 10:42 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: B747 FO
Posts: 1,110
Originally Posted by Lionhaart
automaton response lol
04-14-2023, 12:39 AM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by Swakid8
You should have stopped after this line…. No offense…
Yes, there’s some truth to this. However, Ive actually touched more places thus far with United on a international fleet than I have during my time Atlas… There’s also more variety of flying that will be had with United as well…. I’ve had some great trips with Atlas, but don’t act like Atlas is without its routine destinations as well. Yeah, no…
Yet you have no idea what the bidding structure is for our various fleets here at United…. It’s very doable to achieve a similar schedule to likes of Atlas here at United if one desires. I routinely do 6 on 4 off, 6 on 6 off with reserve here. Same can be easily achieved as a line holder….. Your time at United Express doesn’t give you any insight what can be had with our schedules…
This doesn’t bother me one bit….. Even when I was flying boxes, it sucked being bunk during a rough ride….
This probably only point that I will agree with you on. There’s risk with every airline. Boxes doesn’t make you immune to job security either…. Atlas has done a good job positing themselves to be a cog in the supply chain. However, companies are redesigning their supply chain to place less reliance on China…, That will cause headwinds for Atlas… Belly freight capacity on WB pax fleets are starting to return. That’s going to cause cargo yields to decrease some…
This is true… Except it really starts to shrink some if you are on a small BES…..
Atlas has its share of long van rides as well. Private car service is nice…. We have similar set up on our international layovers also… Even some domestic layovers as well….
Atlas is bit more cash rich, we shall see what Apollo does with that cash chest now..
One will make more at United. Once United gets a new contact, atlas will be 1.5 contracts behind as the recently arbitrated contract still fell short of contracts of legacy carriers.
But hey, what do I know. I went Regional to Atlas to United….. I enjoyed my time at Atlas, flown with some great folks. Had a blast working there. But, if one has a choice between Atlas and United… It’s a easy choice…
Yes, there’s some truth to this. However, Ive actually touched more places thus far with United on a international fleet than I have during my time Atlas… There’s also more variety of flying that will be had with United as well…. I’ve had some great trips with Atlas, but don’t act like Atlas is without its routine destinations as well. Yeah, no…
Yet you have no idea what the bidding structure is for our various fleets here at United…. It’s very doable to achieve a similar schedule to likes of Atlas here at United if one desires. I routinely do 6 on 4 off, 6 on 6 off with reserve here. Same can be easily achieved as a line holder….. Your time at United Express doesn’t give you any insight what can be had with our schedules…
This doesn’t bother me one bit….. Even when I was flying boxes, it sucked being bunk during a rough ride….
This probably only point that I will agree with you on. There’s risk with every airline. Boxes doesn’t make you immune to job security either…. Atlas has done a good job positing themselves to be a cog in the supply chain. However, companies are redesigning their supply chain to place less reliance on China…, That will cause headwinds for Atlas… Belly freight capacity on WB pax fleets are starting to return. That’s going to cause cargo yields to decrease some…
This is true… Except it really starts to shrink some if you are on a small BES…..
Atlas has its share of long van rides as well. Private car service is nice…. We have similar set up on our international layovers also… Even some domestic layovers as well….
Atlas is bit more cash rich, we shall see what Apollo does with that cash chest now..
One will make more at United. Once United gets a new contact, atlas will be 1.5 contracts behind as the recently arbitrated contract still fell short of contracts of legacy carriers.
But hey, what do I know. I went Regional to Atlas to United….. I enjoyed my time at Atlas, flown with some great folks. Had a blast working there. But, if one has a choice between Atlas and United… It’s a easy choice…
04-14-2023, 03:13 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,358
I still love flying. I keep some planes that are terrible investments because they separate the job from the work. The work at Atlas and United is similar: fly a mix of wide and narrow bodies to domestic and international locations. Occasionally go someplace unique.
The job isn't comparable at all. United has a retirement and benefits program that blows us out of the water. Free market economics don't apply to United. They have and will continue to be bailed out during bad times, which means a UAL seniority number may see furloughs but isn't going to expire into nothing. The same can't be said for Atlas. Now I like Atlas. I've become senior enough and comfortable enough that I'm probably staying here until the wheels fall off. But let's not pretend we're in the same league for someone who's starting at year 1. True, a pilot hired in 1997 would have eaten it. So did USAir and TWA pilots. I'll wager most of those guys took their recall notices and didn't stay at Atlas.
I feel like our desire to justify our decisions to stay verges on providing skewed gouge to people with real decisions to make. We aren't lesser aviators for being here, and they aren't greater for being there. If you accept this, then we can acknowledge the real differences in jobs and provide a better picture for our brethren.
I like it here. This isn't a bad place to wind up. Still, you wind up here. You go to something that's too big for the government to let die.
The job isn't comparable at all. United has a retirement and benefits program that blows us out of the water. Free market economics don't apply to United. They have and will continue to be bailed out during bad times, which means a UAL seniority number may see furloughs but isn't going to expire into nothing. The same can't be said for Atlas. Now I like Atlas. I've become senior enough and comfortable enough that I'm probably staying here until the wheels fall off. But let's not pretend we're in the same league for someone who's starting at year 1. True, a pilot hired in 1997 would have eaten it. So did USAir and TWA pilots. I'll wager most of those guys took their recall notices and didn't stay at Atlas.
I feel like our desire to justify our decisions to stay verges on providing skewed gouge to people with real decisions to make. We aren't lesser aviators for being here, and they aren't greater for being there. If you accept this, then we can acknowledge the real differences in jobs and provide a better picture for our brethren.
I like it here. This isn't a bad place to wind up. Still, you wind up here. You go to something that's too big for the government to let die.
Last edited by Elevation; 04-14-2023 at 03:32 AM.
04-14-2023, 05:03 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,431
Originally Posted by darkzone
Dude you taking it so personal. I guess if it was a higher MMG with higher DC you would have never quit Atlas for united. Overall Atlas is a great gig if management stops being arrogant and do some CBA adjustments. Atlas will be career destination for lots of folks.
04-14-2023, 08:35 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: B747 FO
Posts: 1,110
Originally Posted by Elevation
I feel like our desire to justify our decisions to stay verges on providing skewed gouge to people with real decisions to make. We aren't lesser aviators for being here, and they aren't greater for being there. If you accept this, then we can acknowledge the real differences in jobs and provide a better picture for our brethren.
04-14-2023, 12:18 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 105
Originally Posted by darkzone
Dude you taking it so personal. I guess if it was a higher MMG with higher DC you would have never quit Atlas for united. Overall Atlas is a great gig if management stops being arrogant and do some CBA adjustments. Atlas will be career destination for lots of folks.
United Express is NOT United lol but....it does give an idea of the operations.
I will be playing devil's advocate (troll) and say that you can make more money at Atlas.
Say what?
At United the average pilot can expect (and of course correct me if Im wrong) to sit reserve for years. Thats 4 days on, 3 days off.
I wonder how much open time you can pick up between trips? How long can you expect to stay at 73 hours with reserve?
At Atlas if you want to work you can make good money. Yes you'll be gone a lot but you can make very good money.
During covid-19 we had 4 year first officers making 300k a year.
That was a fluke.
United on the other hand furloughing during Covid? That wasn't a fluke. That was expected. Speaking of expected...United Airlines expects a loss for Q1 (but dont worry itll kick back Q2.)
Again want the glorified bus driver role then go to United. You'll probably make more in the long run (7 years to upgrade on a 737 (yay) according to the website) I guess...but at Atlas if you are willing to work you can make a killing.
04-14-2023, 01:54 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: No Hats No Jackets No PAX
Posts: 1,513
Buddy of mine who left for United just a few years ago is doing great and it’s a better fit no doubt. Young kids (needs to be home on a regular basis), lives on the East Coast Big City type and just became 737 Capt will no doubt be well off. Misses our flying, but UA is definitely a better fit and that is awesome. Just being me, you couldn’t stab me hard enough to be pressed into a 73 pax bus flying Newark, etc as I have no benefits to the area, etc. If you live in a Big 3 base or other it’s no a no brainer. Younger you are the better, 15 years maybe 10 years or less left and abhor Groundhog Day crammed flying with barely any ability to be off more than a week it’s a no-go unless you can be bought. Apparently I can be bought as well (for a smaller duration), all last year and the year before flying longer lines for the extra cheddar which ran out but would have been unsustainable for myself regardless. I don’t even do OT, but the high lines were rewarding. Definitely a reduction with an international offset priority for myself getting back to globetrotting. Basing does dictate some mind numbing Big 3 flying, but with some seniority or scheduling change luck it gets far more interesting. 74 wise, none of the others bring me to more locations or ever will at this time. Our 76 not so much, 777 standard routing mostly so there’s that. Contracts change, economy softens everything can be affected or infected. Doors, FAs, pax, same overseas big city vacation locations I have already visited don’t lure me except to get home out of a nice airport 1st Class. Nice obscure memorable times at unique locations stick with me. Nothing wrong hanging out with the tourists it’s a lot of fun, but having time to reach out is priceless. I wouldn’t pay for it, well maybe a couple.
*All you really have to do is know thyself.
*All you really have to do is know thyself.
04-14-2023, 03:16 PM
#28
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,480
Originally Posted by Lionhaart
Non taken
United Express is NOT United lol but....it does give an idea of the operations.
I will be playing devil's advocate (troll) and say that you can make more money at Atlas.
Say what?
At United the average pilot can expect (and of course correct me if Im wrong) to sit reserve for years. Thats 4 days on, 3 days off.
I wonder how much open time you can pick up between trips? How long can you expect to stay at 73 hours with reserve?
At Atlas if you want to work you can make good money. Yes you'll be gone a lot but you can make very good money.
During covid-19 we had 4 year first officers making 300k a year.
That was a fluke.
United on the other hand furloughing during Covid? That wasn't a fluke. That was expected. Speaking of expected...United Airlines expects a loss for Q1 (but dont worry itll kick back Q2.)
Again want the glorified bus driver role then go to United. You'll probably make more in the long run (7 years to upgrade on a 737 (yay) according to the website) I guess...but at Atlas if you are willing to work you can make a killing.
United Express is NOT United lol but....it does give an idea of the operations.
I will be playing devil's advocate (troll) and say that you can make more money at Atlas.
Say what?
At United the average pilot can expect (and of course correct me if Im wrong) to sit reserve for years. Thats 4 days on, 3 days off.
I wonder how much open time you can pick up between trips? How long can you expect to stay at 73 hours with reserve?
At Atlas if you want to work you can make good money. Yes you'll be gone a lot but you can make very good money.
During covid-19 we had 4 year first officers making 300k a year.
That was a fluke.
United on the other hand furloughing during Covid? That wasn't a fluke. That was expected. Speaking of expected...United Airlines expects a loss for Q1 (but dont worry itll kick back Q2.)
Again want the glorified bus driver role then go to United. You'll probably make more in the long run (7 years to upgrade on a 737 (yay) according to the website) I guess...but at Atlas if you are willing to work you can make a killing.
Yes. We made more money during covid (I made over 300k as year 1/2 FO) but just like you said, it was a fluke and wont happen again.
04-14-2023, 03:46 PM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by Lionhaart
Non taken
United Express is NOT United lol but....it does give an idea of the operations.
I will be playing devil's advocate (troll) and say that you can make more money at Atlas.
Say what?
At United the average pilot can expect (and of course correct me if Im wrong) to sit reserve for years. Thats 4 days on, 3 days off.
I wonder how much open time you can pick up between trips? How long can you expect to stay at 73 hours with reserve?
At Atlas if you want to work you can make good money. Yes you'll be gone a lot but you can make very good money.
During covid-19 we had 4 year first officers making 300k a year.
That was a fluke.
United on the other hand furloughing during Covid? That wasn't a fluke. That was expected. Speaking of expected...United Airlines expects a loss for Q1 (but dont worry itll kick back Q2.)
Again want the glorified bus driver role then go to United. You'll probably make more in the long run (7 years to upgrade on a 737 (yay) according to the website) I guess...but at Atlas if you are willing to work you can make a killing.
United Express is NOT United lol but....it does give an idea of the operations.
I will be playing devil's advocate (troll) and say that you can make more money at Atlas.
Say what?
At United the average pilot can expect (and of course correct me if Im wrong) to sit reserve for years. Thats 4 days on, 3 days off.
I wonder how much open time you can pick up between trips? How long can you expect to stay at 73 hours with reserve?
At Atlas if you want to work you can make good money. Yes you'll be gone a lot but you can make very good money.
During covid-19 we had 4 year first officers making 300k a year.
That was a fluke.
United on the other hand furloughing during Covid? That wasn't a fluke. That was expected. Speaking of expected...United Airlines expects a loss for Q1 (but dont worry itll kick back Q2.)
Again want the glorified bus driver role then go to United. You'll probably make more in the long run (7 years to upgrade on a 737 (yay) according to the website) I guess...but at Atlas if you are willing to work you can make a killing.
04-14-2023, 04:10 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,431
Originally Posted by Lionhaart
Non taken
United Express is NOT United lol but....it does give an idea of the operations.
I will be playing devil's advocate (troll) and say that you can make more money at Atlas.
Say what?
At United the average pilot can expect (and of course correct me if Im wrong) to sit reserve for years. Thats 4 days on, 3 days off.
I wonder how much open time you can pick up between trips? How long can you expect to stay at 73 hours with reserve?
At Atlas if you want to work you can make good money. Yes you'll be gone a lot but you can make very good money.
During covid-19 we had 4 year first officers making 300k a year.
That was a fluke.
United Express is NOT United lol but....it does give an idea of the operations.
I will be playing devil's advocate (troll) and say that you can make more money at Atlas.
Say what?
At United the average pilot can expect (and of course correct me if Im wrong) to sit reserve for years. Thats 4 days on, 3 days off.
I wonder how much open time you can pick up between trips? How long can you expect to stay at 73 hours with reserve?
At Atlas if you want to work you can make good money. Yes you'll be gone a lot but you can make very good money.
During covid-19 we had 4 year first officers making 300k a year.
That was a fluke.
Anyways, reserve scheduling isn’t always a 4 on and 3 off. Again, it is very possible to stack one’s work days and days off including reserve. It’s what I currently do.
Article 33 has dried up. I was there for it and did extremely well. Current contract, year 2, one will need to credit about 80 hours on the 747 to match year 2 MMG of United’s NB pay… That’s if one is on Reserve….. That number will go up when we get a new contract…
Which brings me to my next point, NB folks are holding lines under a year here. Your point stands if you are a junior pilot on the 78 or the triple.
Originally Posted by Lionhaart
United on the other hand furloughing during Covid? That wasn't a fluke. That was expected. Speaking of expected...United Airlines expects a loss for Q1 (but dont worry itll kick back Q2.)
Originally Posted by Lionhaart
Again want the glorified bus driver role then go to United. You'll probably make more in the long run (7 years to upgrade on a 737 (yay) according to the website) I guess...but at Atlas if you are willing to work you can make a killing.
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