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Old 03-03-2020, 08:56 AM   #1  
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Default whats considered administrative action?

On airline applications, whats considered administrative action? I understand warning letters fall under this category, but what else would? If you received a letter of investigation and talked with a inspector on the phone with no further outcome, would that fall under the category?
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Old 03-03-2020, 09:25 AM   #2  
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Employers usually ask about investigations/LOI's separately.

Engaging with the FAA is not an administrative action as I see it. An admin action would be a formal action taken to address some issue, and would be documented in some manner. They would have to do an investigation first and then decide on an action. An investigation in and of itself is not a violation or administrative action.

If they determined that you had committed a violation and basically "diverted" your case to Compliance Action, I'm not sure if that would be admin action because Compliance Action specifically does NOT include a finding of violation.

But an employer might see it differently, so if you got Compliance Action I would probably consider that as an admin action just to be safe.

If you just talked to the FAA about some event, that conversation is probably not an admin action.

As far as having been investigated, that's a formal process. If you are investigated, you WILL get a letter in the mail (LOI). If you talk to the FAA but never got an LOI, you were not investigated (FOIA your records to be sure there's no LOI in your file).
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:50 PM   #3  
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There are 4 levels of FAA response to a potential violation:

1) No Action. The FAA either found there was no violation, or insufficient evidence for ANY further FAA action.

2) Informal Action...now also known as Compliance Action. The FAA believes there is evidence of a violation, but has found the airmen to be “willing and able” to comply in the future with only informal action, such as counseling, retraining, etc. This does NOT constitute a Finding of a Violation.

3) Administrative Action. The FAA believes there is evidence of a violation, and believes that documentation of the violation is necessary or appropriate. Consequently, this results in either a Warning Notice (in writing) or a Letter of Correction (documentation of some mutually agreed upon corrective action). This does NOT constitute a Finding of a Violation, and is normally expunged from an airman’s record after 2 years.

4) Legal Action. For an airmen, this is formal action against your certificate (suspension or revocation) or a civil penalty. It requires full due process, and can be challenged, but if upheld it DOES constitute a Finding of a Violation.
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Old 03-03-2020, 05:18 PM   #4  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peabody17 View Post
There are 4 levels of FAA response to a potential violation:

1) No Action. The FAA either found there was no violation, or insufficient evidence for ANY further FAA action.

2) Informal Action...now also known as Compliance Action. The FAA believes there is evidence of a violation, but has found the airmen to be “willing and able” to comply in the future with only informal action, such as counseling, retraining, etc. This does NOT constitute a Finding of a Violation.

3) Administrative Action. The FAA believes there is evidence of a violation, and believes that documentation of the violation is necessary or appropriate. Consequently, this results in either a Warning Notice (in writing) or a Letter of Correction (documentation of some mutually agreed upon corrective action). This does NOT constitute a Finding of a Violation, and is normally expunged from an airman’s record after 2 years.

4) Legal Action. For an airmen, this is formal action against your certificate (suspension or revocation) or a civil penalty. It requires full due process, and can be challenged, but if upheld it DOES constitute a Finding of a Violation.
Do you know where the FAA defines #3 in writing? That would be helpful for anyone who got compliance action and would like to be able to able show an employer that it's not an administrative action.
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Old 03-03-2020, 06:18 PM   #5  
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^^^ See FAA Order 2150.3 as amended. Peabody did a nice job of summarizing.
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Old 03-04-2020, 06:43 AM   #6  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Employers usually ask about investigations/LOI's separately.

Engaging with the FAA is not an administrative action as I see it. An admin action would be a formal action taken to address some issue, and would be documented in some manner. They would have to do an investigation first and then decide on an action. An investigation in and of itself is not a violation or administrative action.

If they determined that you had committed a violation and basically "diverted" your case to Compliance Action, I'm not sure if that would be admin action because Compliance Action specifically does NOT include a finding of violation.

But an employer might see it differently, so if you got Compliance Action I would probably consider that as an admin action just to be safe.

If you just talked to the FAA about some event, that conversation is probably not an admin action.

As far as having been investigated, that's a formal process. If you are investigated, you WILL get a letter in the mail (LOI). If you talk to the FAA but never got an LOI, you were not investigated (FOIA your records to be sure there's no LOI in your file).
Do you know if employers recieve a copy of your NPTRS during background checks?
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:51 PM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eccothedolphin View Post
Do you know if employers recieve a copy of your NPTRS during background checks?
PTRS's are not part of pilot records.
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Old 05-17-2020, 04:02 PM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfInit View Post
^^^ See FAA Order 2150.3 as amended. Peabody did a nice job of summarizing.
Agreed. Nice job.
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Old 05-22-2020, 07:56 AM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eccothedolphin View Post
Do you know if employers recieve a copy of your NPTRS during background checks?
No, FOIA requests pertaining to pilot records include certificate/rating applications, notices of disapproval, failed checks, etc. That is kept by airman records and above and beyond the basic "PRIA check" that is mandatory, but many air carriers do it, because it is recommended by the advisory circular.
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Old 08-12-2020, 06:51 AM   #10  
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No, FOIA requests pertaining to pilot records include certificate/rating applications, notices of disapproval, failed checks, etc. That is kept by airman records and above and beyond the basic "PRIA check" that is mandatory, but many air carriers do it, because it is recommended by the advisory circular.

James, quick question. Regarding the FOIA and pertaining to my records, I received it today with some (seems to be missing many years in activity like ATP, Comm checkrides, etc) PTRS records. I have a few records stating "C" closed and one stating "S" satisfactory. Does this mean that I was ever considered to have "failed" these "C" ones? Because I didn't and I'm concerned I need to take action to dispute these and the airline who reported these went out of business. Thank you!
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