Night current
03-28-2024, 08:27 AM
#1
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Night current
Two pilots get into a C172 to fly at night part 91.
Pilot flying is not night current.
Passenger/non-flying pilot is night current.
In the absense of any training or safety pilot scenario, Is this a legal flight?
Pilot flying is not night current.
Passenger/non-flying pilot is night current.
In the absense of any training or safety pilot scenario, Is this a legal flight?
03-28-2024, 10:56 AM
#4
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Can the flying pilot get night current in this scenario?
Reason I ask is that as it applies to currency in general 61.57(a)2 says that when regaining currency "a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day VFR or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight."
Logically that should also apply at night?
Reason I ask is that as it applies to currency in general 61.57(a)2 says that when regaining currency "a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day VFR or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight."
Logically that should also apply at night?
03-28-2024, 11:34 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
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Originally Posted by Knowsnot
Can the flying pilot get night current in this scenario?
Reason I ask is that as it applies to currency in general 61.57(a)2 says that when regaining currency "a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day VFR or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight."
Logically that should also apply at night?
Reason I ask is that as it applies to currency in general 61.57(a)2 says that when regaining currency "a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day VFR or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight."
Logically that should also apply at night?
The only exception is for two CFI’s that are both not night current.
There is actually a Letter from Council.
03-28-2024, 12:31 PM
#6
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Posts: 6,026
Cessna 172. VFR, night. Operation conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.
Pilot A: private pilot, airplane, single-engine land. 1 night landing in the last 90 days. Not night current.
Pilot B: private pilot, airplane, single-engine land. 3 night landings in the last 0 days. Night Current.
The regulation: 14 CFR 61.57(b)
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1.../section-61.57
A flight is conducted under visual flgiht conditions at night in a Cessna 172 with pilots A and B as the occupants of the aircraft. By necessity, the flight requires a pilot in command, and only pilot B can act as pilot in command.
Note that 14 CFR 61.57(b)(1)(i) requires that pilot A "act as sole manipulator of the controls," but does not require that pilot A act as pilot in command.
Pilot B does not need to manipulate the controls to act as pilot in command. Pilot B will act as pilot in command while pilot A is sole manipulator of the controls.
Pilot A does not need to act as pilot in command to manipulate the flight controls. Pilot B is the acting pilot in command. Pilot A may perform the landings, and log the time as pilot in command, as sole manipulator of the controls. Pilot A may log the time as pilot in command, although he is not the acting pilot in command. Pilot A logs the time under 61.51(e)(1)(i), as pilot in command, because he is sole manipulator (and rated in the aircraft). He cannot act as pilot in command, because he is not current.
Were pilot A to act as pilot in command, that would make pilot B a passenger, not necessary for the conduct of the flight. This is not legal. Therefore, Pilot B must be the acting pilot in command.
Pilot B is acting pilot in command, but cannot log the time, as he meets no criteria under 14 CFR 61.51(e) to log that time. Pilot A is not the pilot in command, but may log pilot in command time.
Pilot A: private pilot, airplane, single-engine land. 1 night landing in the last 90 days. Not night current.
Pilot B: private pilot, airplane, single-engine land. 3 night landings in the last 0 days. Night Current.
The regulation: 14 CFR 61.57(b)
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1.../section-61.57
§ 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.
(b) Night takeoff and landing experience.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—
(i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).
(b) Night takeoff and landing experience.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—
(i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).
Note that 14 CFR 61.57(b)(1)(i) requires that pilot A "act as sole manipulator of the controls," but does not require that pilot A act as pilot in command.
Pilot B does not need to manipulate the controls to act as pilot in command. Pilot B will act as pilot in command while pilot A is sole manipulator of the controls.
Pilot A does not need to act as pilot in command to manipulate the flight controls. Pilot B is the acting pilot in command. Pilot A may perform the landings, and log the time as pilot in command, as sole manipulator of the controls. Pilot A may log the time as pilot in command, although he is not the acting pilot in command. Pilot A logs the time under 61.51(e)(1)(i), as pilot in command, because he is sole manipulator (and rated in the aircraft). He cannot act as pilot in command, because he is not current.
Were pilot A to act as pilot in command, that would make pilot B a passenger, not necessary for the conduct of the flight. This is not legal. Therefore, Pilot B must be the acting pilot in command.
Pilot B is acting pilot in command, but cannot log the time, as he meets no criteria under 14 CFR 61.51(e) to log that time. Pilot A is not the pilot in command, but may log pilot in command time.
03-29-2024, 05:59 AM
#7
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,086
So in non-legalese, just pay an instructor to go up with you.
You might learn something if you pick the right one.
When was the last time you did stalls and steep turns at night?
Oh the aircraft only stalls during the day? Straight ahead?
Legally “FAR” night current does not equal night proficient.
Not aimed at anyone in particular just a general snark.
You might learn something if you pick the right one.
When was the last time you did stalls and steep turns at night?
Oh the aircraft only stalls during the day? Straight ahead?
Legally “FAR” night current does not equal night proficient.
Not aimed at anyone in particular just a general snark.
03-29-2024, 09:01 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,026
Originally Posted by joepilot
Nobody has ever answered, to my satisfaction, why it is that pilots operating under FAR 121 are not required to maintain night currency to operate at night.
§ 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.
(b) Night takeoff and landing experience.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—
(i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).
(e) Exceptions.
(2) This section does not apply to a pilot in command who is employed by a part 119 certificate holder authorized to conduct operations under part 121 when the pilot is engaged in a flight operation under part 91 or 121 for that certificate holder if the pilot in command complies with §§ 121.436 and 121.439 of this chapter.(1) Paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section do not apply to a pilot in command who is employed by a part 119 certificate holder authorized to conduct operations under part 125 when the pilot is engaged in a flight operation for that certificate holder if the pilot in command is in compliance with §§ 125.281 and 125.285 of this chapter.
(b) Night takeoff and landing experience.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—
(i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).
(e) Exceptions.
(2) This section does not apply to a pilot in command who is employed by a part 119 certificate holder authorized to conduct operations under part 121 when the pilot is engaged in a flight operation under part 91 or 121 for that certificate holder if the pilot in command complies with §§ 121.436 and 121.439 of this chapter.(1) Paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section do not apply to a pilot in command who is employed by a part 119 certificate holder authorized to conduct operations under part 125 when the pilot is engaged in a flight operation for that certificate holder if the pilot in command is in compliance with §§ 125.281 and 125.285 of this chapter.
03-29-2024, 05:02 PM
#10
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,086
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-61/subpart-A/section-61.57
Sorry you're not satisfied.
Sorry you're not satisfied.
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