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If you are IFR and have a clearance to take you to where you are going why cancel,, If you are in B and wish to operate VFR ask for the visual if landing or VFR on top direct to ,,, if transitioning. You typically save very little time or distance either way and don't have to worry about it. If you are outside and you cancel before entering you need to hear you are cleared into class B as your clearance is terminated when you cancel and VFR you need to be cleared to enter,, always. And never assume anything, If you have doubt ask prior to breaking a reg.
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nyway, the point of the original post was, do IFR vectors that just so happen to carry you through class-B imply class-B clearance. |
Originally Posted by bubi352
(Post 703757)
You need to review the definition and concept of an ATC clearance. This is what a lot of of student pilots are taught by their instructors. This wrong interpretation has been passed on to pilots over and over. (Don't mean to throw you under the bus) Why? Because a lot of pilots can't tell the difference between an ATC clearance and two way radio communication. So to be on the safe side, flight instructors tell their student to ask and hear the words "Clear into Class B". This is why ATC yells at pilots when they received a heading and altitude assignment and still ask if they are clear into class B!!! And yes, I do enter in class B ALL THE TIME without asking or hearing "Clear into class B". What is the difference? In most case I do get a more professional and expeditious service from ATC because they know who they are dealing with.
This being said, you are RIGHT also. If ATC doesn't care where you are going and just wants you to proceed VFR, this is not in this case an ATC clearance. So you need to hear the words "Clear into Class B or something similar to that effect". Let me ask you. If you received a heading and altitude assignment and then the radio becomes cluttered. Are you going to deviate from this "ATC clearance" because you didn't hear "Clear into Class B" and you are just about to enter class B? I hope not. And this is exactly what may happen to your students - an FAR violation. You think you do them a favor and this might bite them in the a$% later on. Let me ask you another question, you are departing from an uncontrolled airport for an IFR-IMC flight which requires you to obtain a clearance before entering controlled airspace, do you hear in any of that "Clear into class E"? I bet you never did in a million. I'm with the majority. I'd rather get yelled at for asking for a clearance rather than getting hate mail from the FAA. Same with taxi instructions. |
Originally Posted by bernouli
(Post 705602)
ATC yells anyway.
I'm with the majority. I'd rather get yelled at for asking for a clearance rather than getting hate mail from the FAA. Same with taxi instructions. * It didn't have to. If we did a normal climb to altitude we would enter the B. But we could have leveled off, remained below the B, and then about 1 mile or so later, continued the climb. For those who believe that heading and altitude = clearance, willing to act on that that implication a mile or so from the Class B surface area? |
Originally Posted by NoyGonnaDoIt
(Post 705640)
I've never even gotten yelled at. Quite the opposite. Once were were doing practice approaches at KFTG (under/near/virtually on top of) the DEN Class B. Our radioed missed approach instructions would bring us up into the B airspace*. My "Confirm cleared into the Bravo" received the friendly reply, "Oh yeah. You need that don't you. Cleared into the Class Bravo."
* It didn't have to. If we did a normal climb to altitude we would enter the B. But we could have leveled off, remained below the B, and then about 1 mile or so later, continued the climb. For those who believe that heading and altitude = clearance, willing to act on that that implication a mile or so from the Class B surface area? |
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