Whacker77

A few months ago, I posted about reading an article in the AOPA magazine about expunging accidents and incidents from a pilot's record. I thought I read the article within the last year, but as it turned out it was printed way back in February 2006. I guess time flies.

Regardless, I found the story in the archives on the AOPA website. I reread it and this is the jist of what it said. When an accident occurs, the FAA collects information for the accident/incident database. This includes the name, birthdate, and certificate number of the pilot involved.

As of November 2005, the FAA changed the rule and began expunging the name and certificate number of the pilot involved in the matter after five years. Previously, a pilot could apply for the expunging of the accident, but most pilots were not aware that could be done. Now, it is automatic.

According to the FAA, it decided that five years was long enough maintain identifying material pertaining to an accident. If another accident occured within the initial five year period, both would appear until five years had passed from the date of the second accident. The FAA was worried accidents from long ago would unfairly act as black marks on a pilot's record.

This information applies to PRIA requests though. The AOPA article mentioned that the NTSB also keeps its own records which are separate from the FAA's records. I am unsure whether the NTSB records maintain a pliot's name or certificate number indefintely.

Anyway, I brought this issue up a few months ago and I just wanted provide put a bow on the issue.

HSLD

Thanks for posting the follow-up, i wasn't aware of the change.

I suppose this will lead to the ethical debate of after 5 years following an accident, how does a pilot answer on an application or in an interview: " have you ever been involved in an aircraft accident or incident? "

esa17

It would if there was a linky-poo.

Whacker77

It's an interesting question and one I think deserves a good and honest debate.

Let's say a private pilot is involved in an accident at 20 years of age. He continues to fly and at the age of 35 decides to change careers and become a pilot. If that person has a CFI and 2000 hours, is an event 15 years in the past relevant? I would say no, but I understand why other would say yes.

Let's say an ATP is involved in an accident while flying for a regional. Ten years later the ATP applies for a job at a major. Is that accident relevant? In this case, I would be more inclined to say yes because the accident occured in 121 flying and the ATP is looking to move to a larger form of 121 flying. It shouldn't be a non-starter though.

It's one of those instances where the legal and the ethical may not be the same. My conscience would get the best of me though. Having said that, some regionals outright reject applicants if an accident has occured the past.

Whacker77

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...06/pc0602.html

Have to be a member to read it though. As I wrote, the NTSB has its own database people can sift through.

Photon

I know many operators in Asia specifically will just outright say that if you have been involved in any sort of accident, no matter of you're Sullenberger, they don't want you...

rickair7777

The US is a little more pragmatic, most airlines will consider the circumstances and not just disqualify you for any previous history.

MD11

The phrase "have you ever had an accident?" should be answered honestly. Not only is it the right thing to do but if answered falsely could be grounds for termination... that would be worse than an accident I think.

Anyway, I had an accident 20 years ago, no violation was issued due to the circumstances. I applied at a certain regional, filled out the app in detail and above all, honestly.... received an invite to interview. Upon gathering at the corporate headquarters after 10 minutes, I was sent home. HR said they couldn't hire me because of the accident even though it was 20 years prior. No chance was given to explain myself... just a ticket home. As a side note, if they would have read the application, they would have not wasted their time or my money. They don't pay for accomodations or meals for interviewees. No refund or apology offered but they clearly made a mistake.

Another airline called me and wanted to invite me for an interview but wanted to know if I had flown a multi in the last 6 months. Again, I was honest... I hadn't flown a twin in over a year but was instrument current and flying regularly. The HR folks at that airline decided to un-invite me. Btw, I have quite a few hours in piston twins and am type rated in the CRJ.

I guess if you really want a job in this market you could lie... The first airline probably would have never found out about my accident. My feeling is, why erode your dignity for peanuts? Yes, I am still un-employed and there may have been others at that interview that lied and were hired. Which is better? You have to make the choice based upon who you are as a person.

NoyGonnaDoIt

It would be and it should be.

On the FAA's accident/incident expungement policy, understand that it is very, very limited. If you read Yodice's article in the link Whacker provided, you'll see that part of the reason is related to the negative impact of the information being in the pilot record held by an enforcement agency - the "if the cops investigated you, you must've done something bad" mentality. Even if there was no violation, no warning, no nothing that came of it other than a polite interview.

It's a "we don't have a record of an investigation of the incident" kind of expungement, not a "the incident never happened" kind of expungement.

Whacker77

You make a good point about an accident or incident simply not being part of a pilot's record. It's not as if the whole event is removed from the memory banks. There is still a file with the events that took place, just no name.

As the article I linked stated, the NTSB also keeps its own records, but I don't know if they have names associated with their reports. Having said that, I just don't know how an airline would ever find out if someone had an accident if the pilot's name was expunged from the event.

I renewed my CFI with a flight the other day and did so with an FAA examiner I know. I brought this topic up because I found it interesting. Without passing a moral judgement on the topic, the FAA examiner told me he thought there was really no way for someone to find out about an accident or incident unless the pilot offered the information.

I don't know what a person should do with this issue. It's a roll of the dice, but it's also a tough job market and each person has to do what is best for that person. We've all heard stories about inflated logbooks so this may just be another form of logbook inflating.