Fly Boy Knight

Lol yeah I agree, the idea behind the concept of "incidental to the business" is rather vague. I hate it how the FAA tries to make things clear but using words like that aren't clear at all.

I do have to agree that this situation sounds funky and is probably not within the scope of "incidental". I think the best course of action would be to get a letter of interpretation from the FSDO on this particular issue. Then, at least, it is clearly obvious that you were not sure and that you are NOT trying to "get away with anything" behind the FAA's back.

After rereading the OP a bunch of times, I am inclined to agree with you that the purpose of a "meeting" could be the sole agenda of the company. The way I see it is the word "incidental" means that it will not be a repeat event. If you are a restate broker and you need pictures of a house and the only road to this house was washed out by Hurricane Irene, then renting a plane would be 100% incidental because this is the only time you will ever do it (not in the business of aerial photography, just getting pictures because there is no other way). However, in this case, to me it does NOT sound like this will be a one time deal and the company would have no way to justify to the FAA that it is a one time deal.

Again, these interpretations of the word "incidental" are all fine and dandy but until an enforcement action happens pertaining to this subject, all we can do is speculate but, in hind sight, I think a letter from the FSDO would be in order or simply don't do it.

Fly Boy Knight

I found this article from AOPA's legal division on the topic. Rather interesting. I had never heard of any enforcement actions / interpretations on this matter before so this is interesting.

http://home.pcisys.net/~aghorash/BusinessFlying.pdf

After reading this article, I would say that the purpose of the meeting will probably be the deciding factor on whether or not it is incidental to the business or not.

Duksrule

This seems pretty close to the scenario but it's a company rather than the county paying for the plane and rather than bad kids it would be other company workers.

The FAA told the County of San Bernardino that it was OK for Probation
Department employees to fly juvenile wards between foster homes and the
central detention facility (many hours' driving time), under the privileges of their
private pilot certificates. In this situation, the pilots were not compensated for
piloting the aircraft over and above their usual salary. Aircraft operation was not
part of the pilots' job description, nor a condition of employment or
advancement. The county paid for the aircraft rental.

USMCFLYR

Your right - that does sound similar.
I thought the FAA had decided that FLIGHT TIME (which many pilots are trying to build IOT get a better job eventually) was a form of compensation though.

FBK - I'm not sure if the FAA IS TRYING to be clear.
First off - these regs are written by lawyers and it seemsto me that they want them intentionally vague so that they can use grey areas where it fits them.
Sometimes grey areas are good. How would you like the job of writing BLACK AND WHITE regs to fit every conceivable situation that arises! NOT ME! grey area works fine when you are in agreement with another and is a bear when the official whom you are trying to convince sees it another way.

USMCFLYR

NoyGonnaDoIt

(b) and (c) give two independent bases for a legal flight in this general scenario, so long as the conditions of the exceptions are met.

Under (b), if all of the rental costs of the airplane and fuel are shared by the pilot and the passengers (who are headed to the same meeting), we have a legitimate shared cost flight. Ad the company providing reimbursement for any of theat and you are outside the exception.

Under (c) the pilot can be reimbursed for the costs of the flight (including the aircraft rental) in order to transport himself, but cannot transport his co-workers. This was an unfortunate reading given to this exception by the FAA Chief Counsel about a year ago.

USMC, "incidental" generally means that the task doesn't require flying. Aerial pipeline patrol requires flying. Aerial photography requires flying. Going to a meeting doesn't require flying. You can use greyhound, a carpool, a train to get to the meeting. Try those for aerial pipeline patrol or aerial photography.

USMCFLYR

NGDI - I've been waiting your arrival!!

Ok - so in the OP's original question - these company employees could take a variety of differents means to get to their meeting so it doesn't meet the rule. Is that correct?

Looking at your answer above (b) - it would seem that if the OP calculated all of the costs (and didn't throw in anything extra for himself), then divide it by the numbers of total people in the plane then it would be legal (though not incidental).

USMCFLYR

Twin Wasp

One other thing, the pilot is being tasked by his boss to fly - "hey, you're a pilot..." If the boss had said, "Here's $200 for travel and hotels. Oh yeah, Smith and Jones are also going, see what hotel they're to be at." Our bright pilot tracks down Smith and Jones and tells them he can save them a night's hotel bill if they'll chip in for a plane. That might fly.

Whale Driver

Pay $1 of the cost, find something unrelated to the business to do in that city (an awesome hamburger) that no one else does and go.

KISS.

11Fan

The Liability issue notwithstanding.

jheath

All of these answers are great and much more legally and factually in depth and accurate than the one I'm about to give, but the dumbed down way it was explained to me as a lowly student pilot was: Let's say you're a janitor for a company and this company is sending people to a conference. Normally people would drive to this conference and are reimbursed for their mileage, but you happen to be a private pilot. So rather than driving you tell your boss you're going to rent a plane to get you and your coworkers there and he says he'll reimburse you for the cost. When you get down there, you better be mopping some floors or the FAA won't see that incidental to your job functions.